Pleco Acting Strange!

[Bluesand1313]

Hello, after finding no help from Google, I decided to join a somewhat-active to active forum so somebody could help me.
First off, you can call me Blue.

Now, for the problem. Houdini is a Bristlenose Pleco, and he has been acting strange lately. He sleeps/sits under the filter, and then all of the sudden he will have like... a spaz attack or something and will twist and turn all around the tank, bashing his nose into the glass and flipping over on one side to the other before he settles down. He does this quite often.

I have not done any tests for my 10 Gallon tank yet, but recently it has gotten cloudy. The filter has been changed and is fine, so we don' know why it is cloudy. I know it holds to many fish (My mistake) but I'm not going to throw my fish out just because of that, so instead I am going to try and keep them as happy as they can until they move on. Honestly, the tank has plenty of space to swim around still..

Back to the problem. I have also noticed Houdini's top lip is gone/disappeared. I think it might have ripped off when he was thrashing around or something. He is also constantly gulping in air after he thrashes around, then after a while HUGE bubbles come out of his gills or whatever. They don't come out of his mouth, just his gills. I'm pretty sure that it is NOT just air gulping. He has never done this before, actually.

He is in the 10 gallon tank and he is three inches, fully grown. We have had him for a year or two now. He shares a tank with an Albino Corey, Annoying Little Snails, 5 Neon Tetra's, 3 Black Skirt Tetra's, and 3 Guppies.
Everything has been totally fun up until now.

Please just answer my question and don't pester me about my tank. This has happened on another forum when I asked help about gerbils, and all it does is stress out the person who owns them. I'm worried for my pleco and I don't need to hear you complaining about my tank. I know what has happened and like I explained before, I'm not just going to give away or flush my fish. I like them.

 

[alistairw]

Hi Blue

I'm new to all this fish keeping and I won't comment on your tank!

You say you have changed your filter. Was the tank originally cycled? By that, I mean have you gone through the nitrogen cycle and established a nice colony of bacteria in your filter media that changes lethal ammonia to lethal Nitrite and then Nitrite to the less dangerous nitrate which is the end product of the cycle. When you changed the filter, did you put your cycled media into it? If you didn't you will essentially have taken your tank back to the beginning straight away and are doing a fish in cycle (see the beginners resource centre, I found this incredibly helpful).

One symptom you mention is the BN gulping for air. If there is too much nitrIte in the water, this reduces the amount of oxygen that can be absorbed through the gills and the fish tend to ascend to the top of the water column and appear to be gulping air (more experienced members, please correct me if I have misunderstood!!). If I were you, I would immediately go and buy an Api master test kit or at least the ammonia and nitrite kit as you really need to know your water parameters. A lot of problems with fish are due to poor water quality.

Once you have done this, I would post your parameters on here and I am sure a more experienced member will be able to advise. If the ammonia and nitrite levels are above 0.00 I would immediately do a 90% water change.


Al

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Sound to me like either ammonia/nitrite poisoning from an uncycled filter. Which if you have thrown away your filter media and replaced it with new stuff, that's deffo what it is a d you need to do and 80% water change NOW.
If it's not poisoning then it could be parasites but until we know your water parameters no one can really help tbh. You really should get a liquid based test kit asap.

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

I've noticed your other threads reporting of deaths, i imagine it's all related to the same thing you say you tested your water can we see the results please?

 

[xingumike]

Hello, after finding no help from Google, I decided to join a somewhat-active to active forum so somebody could help me.
First off, you can call me Blue.

Now, for the problem. Houdini is a Bristlenose Pleco, and he has been acting strange lately. He sleeps/sits under the filter, and then all of the sudden he will have like... a spaz attack or something and will twist and turn all around the tank, bashing his nose into the glass and flipping over on one side to the other before he settles down. He does this quite often.

I have not done any tests for my 10 Gallon tank yet, but recently it has gotten cloudy. The filter has been changed and is fine, so we don' know why it is cloudy. I know it holds to many fish (My mistake) but I'm not going to throw my fish out just because of that, so instead I am going to try and keep them as happy as they can until they move on. Honestly, the tank has plenty of space to swim around still..

Back to the problem. I have also noticed Houdini's top lip is gone/disappeared. I think it might have ripped off when he was thrashing around or something. He is also constantly gulping in air after he thrashes around, then after a while HUGE bubbles come out of his gills or whatever. They don't come out of his mouth, just his gills. I'm pretty sure that it is NOT just air gulping. He has never done this before, actually.

He is in the 10 gallon tank and he is three inches, fully grown. We have had him for a year or two now. He shares a tank with an Albino Corey, Annoying Little Snails, 5 Neon Tetra's, 3 Black Skirt Tetra's, and 3 Guppies.
Everything has been totally fun up until now.

Please just answer my question and don't pester me about my tank. This has happened on another forum when I asked help about gerbils, and all it does is stress out the person who owns them. I'm worried for my pleco and I don't need to hear you complaining about my tank. I know what has happened and like I explained before, I'm not just going to give away or flush my fish. I like them.

Except there isn't a question in all that?

Your problem seems to be intrinsically linked to the issues you know your tank has but don't want to discuss.

btw, at 3 inches it is not fully grown.

When you say the filter has been changed what do you mean?

 

[Bluesand1313]

alistairw: We have had the 10 gallon for maybe... 4 or 5 years now, so yes, it's cycled. We never do a complete water change (I know that is not good for them and we never do that.) We also have bubbles going in the back, so there is oxygen in the tank.

When I mean we changed the filter I mean we changed the bio bag thing. I don't think that would make a difference since there is still all the bacteria it needs and stuff inside the tank.

Also an update: The water became clear again.

I will test for the 10 gallon to see what's up. None of the other fish seem distressed, and as I said about my guppies (who were extremely sensitive to the ammonia and nitrite in my 5 gallon) are doing much better in my 10 gallon, so I don't believe that it's the water..
But I will do tests just in case.

Alm0stAwesome: Like I said for alistairw; When I mean we changed the filter I mean we changed the bio bag thing. I don't think that would make a difference since there is still all the bacteria it needs and stuff inside the tank.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I will test the water tonight and get back to all of you. I think it may be parasites... but i'm not sure how they would get in.. ?

Also, the guppies all died in my 5 gallon, not the 10 gallon. Otherwise, in the 10 gallon, most of my fish live for a fair good time. My Black Skirts are about two years or three and still going strong.

xingumike: Your avatar is scary..

As I said with the other two, what I meant was; When I mean we changed the filter I mean we changed the bio bag thing. I don't think that would make a difference since there is still all the bacteria it needs and stuff inside the tank.
Once again sorry for the misunderstanding.

He's also been the same length for about two years now so.. Unless he's growing REALLY slowly, I think he's grown to his full.
I was told that Pleco's will only grow as large as they can inside a tank.
Seems to be true because of Houdini..

 

[alistairw]

I have to agree with Xingumike. Your problems are linked to overstocking and the small size of tank. Due to their small size, it doesn't take a lot to put it out of kilter.

Is there just a bio bag in your filter? No sponges? There really is very little ammonia/nitrite changing bacteria in your substrate, ornaments etc. certainly not enough to cycle a tank. It is all in your filter, hence why we have all asked the same question.

I think you need to do a massive water change and sort out you stocking. You also need to test your water as this will tell you the quality of your water.

Being a newbie, I have made mistakes but I have learnt from them. You need to stop worrying about what others think, take stock of what people advise you and get it fixed. You are responsible for living creatures that rely solely on you. Sorry to sound harsh, but you need to take the advice given. Most of us have had these problems at some point.

 

[xingumike]

The biobag would contain nearly all of the relevant bacteria, there is some housed within the tank but nowhere near enough to deal with the ammonia produced, certainly not on a tank that small and overstocked.

If that wasn't the case then once a tank was cycled you would be able to remove filter.

re the growth, yes it is true, however it is not through choice, it is called stunting. Imagine if you took a puppy/kitten/child and placed it in a box not much bigger than itself and left it there, it's growth would be hampered, that is what is happening here. That, combined with poor water quality means it's growth has slowed right down if not stopped.

I would do a 30-40% water change daily, with water that has been conditioned with something like Seachem Prime and also get some test kits.

Is there anyone with an established tank that can hold the fish for you until you get the tank cycled again and stock it more appropriately?

 

[Bluesand1313]

I can't sort out the problem with overstocking since the 10 gallon is our largest tank. I don't want to stress them out and certainly not put them in the five gallon which would be even more cramped. ;n;

I forgot to do a water test but I will do it right now.
And also like I said; most of my fish are fine, it's just Houdini.

EDIT: I tested the water, here are the results: Ammonia: 0 | Nitrite: 0 | Nitrate: 80 | PH: 72
I guess my Nitrate is high. My mum won't do a water change (and it's her #138## tank) so I'm going to do it for her. Hopefully that will lower the Nitrate problem!

I'm the only person who I know who has fish who last for a year, at the least. Most of my friends tanks either don't exist anymore, are really cramped, or are disgusting. My friend with the largest tank (A 30 gallon) has ... I don't know how many goldfish because you can't see inside the tank. The whole tank is covered with algae.

So there isn't anywhere I can put my fish without having them most likely die.

Also, I'm going to post pictures. Sorry they are so big.. I don't know how to make them smaller.
My fish have actually come out more and started swimming around. Before they would just kind of sit there... and now they swim around!

This is Whitey, our Albino Cory Catfish. He's really fat >.> I don't know how he got that fat.

That's Houdini. He has a LOT of algae to feed off of, same as Whitey.

I don't know why this one is so tiny... This is our Java Fern plant in the tank.

Our three Black Skirt Tetras

Our two neon tetras and the babies.

 

[onidrase]

That's Houdini. He has a LOT of algae to feed off of, same as Whitey.

I don't know why this one is so tiny... This is our Java Fern plant in the tank.

Corey catfish aren't algae eaters, they're mostly carnivorous to my understanding. They love shrimp pellets and other bottom feeder pellets directed toward omnivorous catfish and loaches. Whitey will benefit very little if at all from being in a 10 gallon algae covered tank without any bottom feeder pellets. Chances are he's surviving off of eating any soggy, rotting food the other fish don't eat.

Bristlenose Plecos are eating machines and benefit from having algae wafers and driftwood to suck on, as well as some veggies like lettuce, cucumber, and broccoli. My Bristlenose loves broccoli. They can't get a complete diet from eating off the walls alone. If it's not the small tank size that's stunting his ability to grow, its the lack of food he's being given. A healthy bristlenose should keep the tank clean at all times. I bought a starving BNP from my LFS and he didn't start cleaning my tank until a few weeks after giving him lots of veggies and wafers to get him going. He just didn't have the energy for it. I've never had to scrub my 75 gallon since.

That plant obviously isn't a java fern, looks more like an anubias species of sorts. Not important, but felt like throwing it in there.


I know you don't want to give away your fish as you're rather attached, but you should also understand that there are plenty of people who can give them better care than being in a cramped tank with dirty neglected water, owned by a person who refuses to do water changes. I had a 10 gallon tank with a beautiful hot pink betta fish (gloriously named Dr. Talinshibunkle Rendronso the Pink) and some gorgeous glowlight tetras, and a 37 gallon tank with a bunch of kuhli loaches and a little baby bristlenose.

With my 10 gallon tank, I had just noticed I didn't care about it anymore. I honestly kinda forgot it was there. I'd feed the fish perhaps once every other day, I stopped changing the water, I just lost interest. The glory days of starting it up for the betta fish were over. It just wasn't my thing. So I passed it on to people who actually did care about it. They thought my aquascaping with the tank was the greatest thing ever and fell in love with the inhabitants. They were willing to take care of something that I was losing interest in. Don't get me wrong, I loved the fish, but that doesn't mean I was treating them right.

With my 37 gallon tank, I had my kuhli loaches and the bristlenose. While the bristlenose just kind of hoovered around and did his thing, those kuhli loaches were the oldest fish I had. I loved watching them zoom about the tank whenever a storm was coming, and watching them party and zoom about whenever I was doing a water change. But once again, I began to lose interest when most of the fish moved from that tank up to the 75 gallon aquarium. I was still doing my water changes, but feeding time became scarce and lazy. I didn't want to let go of my kuhlis, so I tried to come up with ideas on how to keep hold of them. They couldn't go in my 75 (they'd probably get eaten by something) and I just couldn't think of anything for the tank which would respark my care for it. The tank was just too weird in dimensions. Too tall and not long enough for the things that caught my eye.


Anyways. From the sounds of your tanks, it seems they're undercared for (lack of water changes with an overstocked tank) some are being underfed (the bristlenose and cory) or improperly grouped (tetras do better in groups of at least 6, that includes the black skirt tetras, cory catfish are schooling fish as well, who prefer sandy bottom tanks, I'm surprised the bristlenose got what sounds like a bacterial infection before the cory did.) and it sounds as though the filter is just barely cutting it as well. By "biobag" I'm assuming you have a whisper filter, either the crappy internal one or crappy external one, inside of a filter with, IME, a rather bad way of preserving the beneficial bacteria which keeps your tank alive, which is probably why you experienced difficulties after changing it out. An overstocked tank with a messy fish like a bristlenose calls for overfiltration, in the end, to prevent your fish from getting sick in the first place.

In your shoes, regardless of how attached I was to the fish, I'd rehome the black skirt tetras, cory catfish, and bristlenose, and play it from there. From what I know of the tank, that'd leave you with the neon tetras and guppies. you could then possibly add a dwarf, honey, or licorice gourami, maybe a small shoal of otocinclus, which may be cutting it granted the lack of water changes which seem to be done.

 

[Bluesand1313]

Whitey eats at the same time as everybody else. Also, he loves to eat the algae wafers I put in the tank. I don't think I have seen him eat the freeze dried blood worms I rarely put in there. I'll try again, but normally those pesky little snails are the only ones who end up eating it.

Houdini keeps the glass clean, and he's looking much healthier now. I don't know what that little couple-of-days thing was, but he's not doing it anymore and looks healthy and normal again. In fact, he's cleaning the tank right now.
I do give them algae wafers, but they have to share with my oto's since in the 5 gallon they have NO algae yet. (It's a new tank)

Okay, the Pet Store had it labelled under Java Fern, so I don't know.

Well.. there isn't anybody I know that could care for them good. Okay.. there is one person, but he lives in England and I live very far from there, so..
Out of all the people I know, these are their fish stories
Person number 1: Fried her fish to death one night when the power went off and she put an electric blanket around the fish tank to keep them warm then fell asleep. They are not going there ever.
Person two: I don't even know what happened to her betta, but she always ends up giving away all her other fish or over feeding them/never feeding them.
Person three: Has a cat and doesn't even like doing dirty work. Probably most likely would never clean the tank or forget to feed them and they would all die. Not to mention the cat would probably find a way to eat and kill them.
Person four: Has three cats and a small apartment. They would be a good option if it wasn't for the cats and the small apartment.
Person five: Had a betta but completely changed the tank all the time and put.. bad things in the tank. Had him in one of those little starter kit things for bettas. Very sad indeed, and would not be capable of a larger tank to care for.
Right now, the best option the fish have are me and person four. But sadly person four can't take them. Plus my mom would say no anyways and I can't drive yet..

My mum changed the tank every week, and we feed them every night. So they are well cared for, not under cared at all. In fact.. they might be a bit fat because I feed them a bit too much. Woops.

I have six neon tetras and three of the Black Skirts. The black skirts I think are fine, I have one female and two males, from the looks of it. Stripes the second, Max, and Finn all do okay, but sometimes they 'fight' and separate for a couple minutes before regrouping. I can't afford to put more tetras in there, but they are okay, they have company.
Same with the catfish. I see little baby albino cory's at the Pet Store all the time, and they are really tiny! I don't want to over stock the tank even more, plus he does okay on his own.. he has Houdini to hang out with.

The fliter is back to normal and is doing well again, as it has been for 4 years now. I've NEVER had a problem with changing it and it has always done it's job. As I also said, Houdini looks fine now. I've only occasionally had sick fish. Most couldn't handle the first water change, and the others died from old age. One of my neon's died just yesterday from old age. I've only ever had three fish get sick from .. sickness. Ghost, a white betta died from the frog we put in there (Water frog, not normal frog) and he wasn't even in the 10 gallon. Some idiot person showed up at our door with a Clown Loach that we had to put in there, and he got sick with Ick. (Poor little guy wasn't supposed to be in our tank anyways.) and then my betta Cato recently died from Fin Rot, which I tried to cure but he sadly didn't respond to the medication and died the next day. He was in our five gallon which I did a complete (almost complete) water change (I only left about three inches of water in there because it was housing the oto's and I didn't want to stress them out with a complete water change) and that was quite some time ago. Now I have my guppies in the five gallon.

So in conclusion, my fish are well fed and we do do water changes. We have rarely ever had sick fish and Houdini is back to normal. Our fish are more active then before and the water is clear again. The guppies are back in the five gallon and we have 10 fish in our 10 gallon. A bit overstocked only. 1 inch per gallon, right? 3 inches for Houdini, one and a half for the Black Skirts, one and a half for Whitey, and one inch each for the Neon's.
That leaves 10 and a half inches.
Half an inch over.

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

You've reported several deaths in your other threads. And you haven't tried to rehome your fish by either advertising them anywhere or by just taking them to your fish store, which is the easier option, so don't say it's not possible. Sorry for being a little agressive but you've been on the defensive from your fist post so it's a little off putting.
The nitrate won't have been causing you any problems, BTW and I find it difficult to believe that you have 0 ammonia and nitrite after just changing out your filter media AND since you said you had cloudy water it just proves to me that you started another cycle in your tank by doing so. Just because people you know keep fish in worse conditions than you, doesn't make you right.

 

[Bluesand1313]

Yes, the deaths that didn't even happen in my 10 gallon.
I'm not going to give up my fish, its only two inches over.
I've only been on the defensive side because some (not all) are assuming things about my tank that aren't true.
I think we think about 'just changed' differently. Just changed for me means two weeks ago.
I can do the ammonia and nitrite changes and take a picture if it will make you happy.

 

[xingumike]

People can only assume things based on the info given.

Based upon that then something is amiss.

Your stocking is questionable, your filter maintenance incorrect.

You mentioned that the Ancistrus has a missing lip, has this healed in the last 48 hours?

 

[onidrase]

The 1 inch per gallon rule is a general guideline. It's a general guideline about as bad as telling somebody "Over there" and not pointing in any direction after they ask where they lost their wallet in a grassy field.

If you look at my stocking list, you'll see I probably have about 130 inches of fish in a 75 gallon tank. but said tank is filtered by a 110 HOB and 100 gallon canister, water being changed about 20-60% a week. If you guys do water changes and care for the tank, you wouldn't have 80+ nitrates in the first place. It's best to keep those below 40. The bristlenose pleco is a very messy fish. They have a very fast metabolism and make a lot of fish poo. This means you need to do more maintenance in a small tank, and have a bigger filter to take care of it all. IMO the bristlenose alone makes this tank overstocked.

It took my pleco a mere 5 months to reach 6 inches long on the proper diet. He doesn't take times "clean the tank" because he hardly leaves anything to clean. If they have plenty of algae to feast on, they're not doing a really good job eating it.

While whitey may eat the algae pellets, that doesn't mean it's nutritionally beneficial. While my bleeding heart tetras might try to eat my finger tips, it doesn't mean delicious human flesh is good for them. In fact, I have to drop in 4 or 5 algae wafers because all the fish go for them, regardless of its nutritional value.