Please Help With Cycle Issue, Need To Know What To Do!

[bsud]

I've fishless cycled for 7 days, Im stuck as what to do because ammonia has been at 4ppm from day one adding pure ammonia to get it to that and not added anymore since. I did add safe start on first day as well, this morning I tested with api master and still no drop in ammonia 0 nitrites 20ppm nitrates. So went ahead done a 25% PWC and tested few hours later and all was same except nitrates which dropped to 5ppm. So should I just do 90% PWC and start over or just do a fish in cycle with another bottle of. TSS? Or should I just wait for the ammonia I have now to drop? I don't want to get to far ahead and have to start over!

 

[Gruntle]

Stay with it. It takes time, you'll get there in the end.  Keep reading the cycling article, keep notes on your readings.
 
4 to 6 weeks of cycling quickly fades in your memory once you have a healthy tank with pretty fish to watch.
 
If you have any friends with tanks, see if you can swap some media from their filters (about 1/4 to 1/3 at most - sponges, ceramic rings, bioballs, whatever they're willing to swap will be fine) which should kick things along. Or try your LFS to see if they sell or give away old media. Some do it, some do not.
 
Keep smiling knowing you're giving your tank a healthy start to years of enjoyment.

 

[bsud]

Stay with it. It takes time, you'll get there in the end.  Keep reading the cycling article, keep notes on your readings.
 
4 to 6 weeks of cycling quickly fades in your memory once you have a healthy tank with pretty fish to watch.
 
If you have any friends with tanks, see if you can swap some media from their filters (about 1/4 to 1/3 at most - sponges, ceramic rings, bioballs, whatever they're willing to swap will be fine) which should kick things along. Or try your LFS to see if they sell or give away old media. Some do it, some do not.
 
Keep smiling knowing you're giving your tank a healthy start to years of enjoyment.

I really want to do it the right way but just can't understand why I have nitrates before nitrites. Also should I keep dosing aammonia even though its 4ppm or just wait till it drops before adding more?

 

[bsud]

Another test this morn, still have close to 4ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites, PH is 6.8. I didn't check nitrates this time cause right now I just want to see ammonia dropping and see nitrites.

 

[daizeUK]

You've got two threads on the go about the same problem which is a bit confusing.  I'd try to stick to one thread, that way people can keep track of what has been suggested or tried before.
 
Bear in mind that it may take 3 weeks or more before you see ammonia levels start to drop - this is perfectly normal.
 
Do not dose any more ammonia until you see it drop below 0.75ppm - then calculate the amount of ammonia which would add 3ppm and add it as per the instructions in the cycling guide http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

 

[bsud]

You've got two threads on the go about the same problem which is a bit confusing.  I'd try to stick to one thread, that way people can keep track of what has been suggested or tried before.
 
Bear in mind that it may take 3 weeks or more before you see ammonia levels start to drop - this is perfectly normal.
 
Do not dose any more ammonia until you see it drop below 0.75ppm - then calculate the amount of ammonia which would add 3ppm and add it as per the instructions in the cycling guide http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

I had Mods to move this thread to this category. The other thread is in a different category because I wasn't getting much help.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Here is a hint:
 

In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after using TSS. The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of
ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the food the bacteria require to live.

If you already have fish, and are having an ammonia issue, it is best to get the ammonia levels down to below 4.0. 4.0 and higher is just as toxic to TSS as it is to fish. While 2.0 -3.5 ppm ammonia may harm some of the TSS bacteria, it should still have some effect. You may want to do a second dose several days after adding the first one, if you are not seeing the results you want. Keep in mind, these are bacteria, not a chemical, so results are slow to see. Give the product at least 5-7 days.

From a site I can't link to here. It is a Q and A thread for Tetra re Safe Start with replies from Tetra. If you want the link send me a PM.

 

[bsud]

Here is a hint:
 

In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after using TSS. The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of
ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the food the bacteria require to live.
If you already have fish, and are having an ammonia issue, it is best to get the ammonia levels down to below 4.0. 4.0 and higher is just as toxic to TSS as it is to fish. While 2.0 -3.5 ppm ammonia may harm some of the TSS bacteria, it should still have some effect. You may want to do a second dose several days after adding the first one, if you are not seeing the results you want. Keep in mind, these are bacteria, not a chemical, so results are slow to see. Give the product at least 5-7 days.

From a site I can't link to here. It is a Q and A thread for Tetra re Safe Start with replies from Tetra. If you want the link send me a PM.

it won't let me send you a pm for some reason. Anyway I wonder if it would help now that its been running 24 he's without anything added if I should just dump another bottle of TSS in it and just let it go until my ammonia starts dropping?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

What level is your ammonia? Reread the quote.

 

[bsud]

Can you send the link to my pm?

 

[bsud]

What level is your ammonia? Reread the quote.

I just tested this morning and it's still maybe a 3ppm but looks closer to 4ppm. It just doesn't make any sense 4ppm from day one and a 50% PWC and it still hasn't budged. You would think the WC would have lowered the ammonia to 2ppm but it didn't. I'm giving it 4 more days if nothing then I'm going with the straight TSS method.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

bsud- here is what you should do. Skipp the tetra and instead buy some of dr. Tim's one and only. With this you have two choices. One is to add it and a few fish and you don't add ammonia. The other is to use it and do a brief fishless cycle to end up able to stock fully all at once in about a week.
 
But, if you do this you need to forget all the directions on this site for cycling and instead follow the directions on Dr. Tim's site to the letter. This means you do not change anything on your own. You can find the directions for using his bacteria and ammonium chloride etc. here http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/how-to-start see the section on "Using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Bacteria:"
 
If you do not understand any part of those directions, let me know and I will clarify them for you.
 
One more thing if following this advice. You will need to do a massive water change before cycling. If your dechlor also detoxifies ammonia, wait 24 hours after the water change to begin the process. ammonia detoxifiers work against the cycle no matter what the makers state to the contrary.
 
 

 

[bsud]

bsud- here is what you should do. Skipp the tetra and instead buy some of dr. Tim's one and only. With this you have two choices. One is to add it and a few fish and you don't add ammonia. The other is to use it and do a brief fishless cycle to end up able to stock fully all at once in about a week.
 
But, if you do this you need to forget all the directions on this site for cycling and instead follow the directions on Dr. Tim's site to the letter. This means you do not change anything on your own. You can find the directions for using his bacteria and ammonium chloride etc. here http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/how-to-start see the section on "Using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Bacteria:"
 
If you do not understand any part of those directions, let me know and I will clarify them for you.
 
One more thing if following this advice. You will need to do a massive water change before cycling. If your dechlor also detoxifies ammonia, wait 24 hours after the water change to begin the process. ammonia detoxifiers work against the cycle no matter what the makers state to the contrary.

Thanks! This I think is a great idea and what I may want to try. Here is a question with my ammonia level now will it get low enough after I do a water change at say 90%? Also the declor I'm using is the top fin brand and it doesn't say if it detoxifies or not.

 

[bsud]

Also am I reading right that you get the ammonia when you buy the one and only?

 

[daizeUK]

No you buy it separately, it's not included although the wording does give that impression.