Please Help My Fish Are Dying

[DCB]

I bought a peacock eel and 2 dwarf gourami last week and on wednesday my eel started swelling up and swimming on his back and side, unfortunatly he died wednesday night , at first glance the rest of my fish seemed ok but now my male dwarf gourami is sitting on the bottom of the tank and leaning slightly to one side, hes swimming normaly and feeding but im still worried about him.
Last night i did a 50% water change using waterlife haloex dechlorinator, i also treated it with interpet anti internal bacteria,

just done a test-

NO2/ 0
NO3/ 20
GH/ 8d
KH/ 3d
pH/ 7.0

when i bought the eel i noticed there was another eel in the tank with him that looked at bit lazy, iv bought fish from there before and never had a problem so i don't know if this problem came from my LFS or if im doing something wrong.

• i do water change 25% every 2 weeks
• I feed flake food 1 pinch daily, frozen food once or twice a week
• I cycled for nearly 2 month before adding fish
• I introduce fish 2/3 at a time and wait at least 2 weeks between adding

its a 3 foot long 100L

fish( in order put in tank )

4 zebra danios
1 common pleco > (moved from my other aquarium)
_______________________

1 pearl gourami > (bought from LFS)
2 juvenile angel fish
2 dwarf gourami
also 1 peacock eel that I bought 1 week ago that died yesterday

please help asap i dont want to lose any more fish.
should i do another water change?
iv got a floating breading tank should i put my dwarf in this so he doesn't get beaten up by the other fish?

 

[fatheadminnow]

Hello DCB,

Do you know what your Ammonia level is? You have your nitrite level and your nitrate level but not your Ammonia level.

Also, are you using a strip test kit? If so, get rid of that right away as strip test kits are no good and inaccurate. What you want to do is go out and buy a liquid base test kit, like the API Freshwater Master Test Kit, that a lot of us use on here!

Also, how did you cycle your tank?

It is possible, and most likely the cause that your fish are dying from ammonia poison. Ammonia over .25 ppm can give fish permanent gill damage, where as Nitrite over .25 ppm can give fish permanent nerve damage. Nitrate is tolerable to fish up to about 40-50 ppm.

I would increase your water changes to 25% ONCE a week, not every two weeks. Water changes are HUGE in the health of fish. Water has trace minerals that are beneficial to fish, and the dechlorinator that we use to make the water "safe" also has beneficial minerals for the fish. So do Weekly 25% water changes for now on. You might just need to do like 15-20% weekly water changes. You kind of need to experiment a little with it but definitely do weekly water changes!

-FHM

 

[rdd1952]

Hi DCB and welcome to the forum.

It's possible that you have an ammonia issue although the fact that you have 20 ppm of nitrate would lead me to believe the tank is cycling unless that is from our tap water. I assume you are using 5 in 1 strips since the test for everything except ammonia, which in a new tank, is the most important thing to test for. I would definitely test it just to be sure.

It's also possible that the fish was already sick when you bought it in which case, you could have spread it to your whole tank by not quarantining him first. I am clueless on diseases though so can't really comment on that.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Hi DCB and welcome to the forum.

It's possible that you have an ammonia issue although the fact that you have 20 ppm of nitrate would lead me to believe the tank is cycling unless that is from our tap water.

This is what puzzled ,me a little bit as well? I guess we will see what he has to say about his method of cycling. Hopefully it is not just running the filter and heater and add nothing to the tank, like LFS tell you to do sometimes.

-FHM

 

[DCB]

thanks for the replies, i do use a strip tests so i cant test for ammonia, ill pick up a liquid test kit asap (do u know if API Freshwater Master Test Kit is available in the UK?)

i cycled my tank by mixing a bit of gravel from my other mature tank with my new gravel and adding my zebra danios also form my other tank I then left it for 2 months doing regular water changes until the nitrite decreased and the nitrate increased.
I found this method on another website, was ths correct?

ps. i am due to put in my plant food (Tetra plant PlantaMin) should i wait until i know my fish are ok?

 

[fishnovice]

thanks for the replies, i do use a strip tests so i cant test for ammonia, ill pick up a liquid test kit asap (do u know if API Freshwater Master Test Kit is available in the UK?)

i cycled my tank by mixing a bit of gravel from my other mature tank with my new gravel and adding my zebra danios also form my other tank I then left it for 2 months doing regular water changes until the nitrite decreased and the nitrate increased.
I found this method on another website, was ths correct?

ps. i am due to put in my plant food (Tetra plant PlantaMin) should i wait until i know my fish are ok?

API test kits are available in UK on Ebay (got mine fom there) cost about £15 +postage
Test your tap water as well to check that high readings are not due to that. Repeat what others said already- weekly water changes essential, twice weekly better. If you suspect a problem even daily changes. Reduced pH from 8 to 7 and high nitrite to 0 in one of my tanks in 4 days just by doing water changes. Not a great believer in adding chemicals to solve problems except as a last resort. Water change is free and harmless.
Might br best to quarantine suspected sick fish if you can

 

[waterdrop]

thanks for the replies, i do use a strip tests so i cant test for ammonia, ill pick up a liquid test kit asap (do u know if API Freshwater Master Test Kit is available in the UK?)

i cycled my tank by mixing a bit of gravel from my other mature tank with my new gravel and adding my zebra danios also form my other tank I then left it for 2 months doing regular water changes until the nitrite decreased and the nitrate increased.
I found this method on another website, was ths correct?

ps. i am due to put in my plant food (Tetra plant PlantaMin) should i wait until i know my fish are ok?

The method you followed as you've described it sounds not terribly uncommon for "fish-in" cycling types that have been around for years. I would venture that its a weak method in several ways, so I'll try to critique a few of the ways: First of all its a "fish-in cycle" which of course means you are shortening the lives of the fish that you're using as an ammonia source to some unknown extent (once fishless cycling was worked out in the early 1980's, the criticism of fish-in perhaps began to carry more weight.) Mixing gravel from a mature tank certainly carries the possibility of seeding a few of the beneficial bacteria into the new tank, but its a very weak method both because surfaces external to the filter carry relatively few bacteria comparatively and of course they are still not being put in the main business location (the filter) in the new tank either, so very few of them will migrate into the new filter where they could speed the necessary seeding and growth. Thirdly, just generally watching for when nitrite decreased and nitrate increased is a reasonable description of trying to notice basically the end of the "nitrite spike phase" of cycling (the nitrite spike phase is when the A-Bacs (ammonia eaters) outnumber the N-Bacs (nitrite eaters) and so there is an excess of nitrite until the N-Bac population size catches up) but that is not actually a very clear way of determining the end of cycling. Instead, using a sufficiently accurate pair of test kits to measure ammonia and nitrite about twice a day and watching for the time when those test results keep both giving zero ppm for a full week without any water changing is much more likely to be truly telling you that the biofilter has completed its growth and has matched the fish load. So its not that the other method you found was necessarily incorrect, it was just a lot less accurate and revealing as the methods we encourage here in the TFF beginner forum I believe.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fatheadminnow]

Your plant food should not effect the fish or the ammonia, nitrite or nitrate parameters that much. I would say it is just fine to add plant food, so yes, go ahead and add it. Plant food is just going to carry minerals that are beneficial to plants, like carbon and such.

I liked waterdrop's write-up, it explains a lot and gives you some good info!

So, your FIRST priority right now is to get a liquid test kit that test for at least Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte and pH!

These are the four essential parameters to measure during the cycling process in a tank. I would recommend the API test kit, but I also heard only good things about the nutrafin test kit. I use the API one and I know it works very well, so that is why I am recommending that one.

-FHM

 

[mickspark81]

Id just like to say that the above comments about water changes NEEDING to be once a week doesnt ring true..Well at least in my situation.

I have a very healthy 110 litre tank and it takes 14 days for my nitrAtes to reach 40 ppm.

My tank isnt heavily stocked which may help alot

Just making this point because I believe in most cases weekly water changes may be recommended, however in other situations they may not be needed.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Id just like to say that the above comments about water changes NEEDING to be once a week doesnt ring true..Well at least in my situation.

I have a very healthy 110 litre tank and it takes 14 days for my nitrAtes to reach 40 ppm.

My tank isnt heavily stocked which may help alot

Just making this point because I believe in most cases weekly water changes may be recommended, however in other situations they may not be needed.

You make a very good point mickspark81.

However there are other things to take into consideration when doing water changes, not just the nitrate level.

If two weeks works fine for you than that's just okay, but here is why a more frequent water change is more beneficial for our fish.

Water, like I stated above, holds beneficial minerals and vitamins for fish. Fish are very sensitive to water changes like temp, different levels in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and other things in the water.

Another thing is that water conditioners also hold beneficial minerals for fish. I know the API water conditioner and some others have Aloe Vera in it and other things that help the fish's slime coat to help prevent the loss of electrolytes.

Most people, I included, like to double up on water conditioner when doing water changes, just to add extra nutrition to the water.

It is really easy to monitor Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH levels in a tank, but not so easy, or really at all possible, to measure what kind and of how much beneficial minerals are in the water. So it is best to perform more frequent, once a week, water changes to keep a good healthy and usable level of these beneficial minerals in the water for our fish.

-FHM

 

[mickspark81]

Id just like to say that the above comments about water changes NEEDING to be once a week doesnt ring true..Well at least in my situation.

I have a very healthy 110 litre tank and it takes 14 days for my nitrAtes to reach 40 ppm.

My tank isnt heavily stocked which may help alot

Just making this point because I believe in most cases weekly water changes may be recommended, however in other situations they may not be needed.

You make a very good point mickspark81.

However there are other things to take into consideration when doing water changes, not just the nitrate level.

If two weeks works fine for you than that's just okay, but here is why a more frequent water change is more beneficial for our fish.

Water, like I stated above, holds beneficial minerals and vitamins for fish. Fish are very sensitive to water changes like temp, different levels in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and other things in the water.

Another thing is that water conditioners also hold beneficial minerals for fish. I know the API water conditioner and some others have Aloe Vera in it and other things that help the fish's slime coat to help prevent the loss of electrolytes.

Most people, I included, like to double up on water conditioner when doing water changes, just to add extra nutrition to the water.

It is really easy to monitor Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH levels in a tank, but not so easy, or really at all possible, to measure what kind and of how much beneficial minerals are in the water. So it is best to perform more frequent, once a week, water changes to keep a good healthy and usable level of these beneficial minerals in the water for our fish.

-FHM

Just a question but...Couldnt i just add the conditioner to my tank every week without actually changing the water?
This way i would be replacing minerals whilst still doing 14 day water changes

The reason why i ask is because my nitrAtes level in my tap water is 10 ppm and after 1 week goes up to around 22ppm.

Im not trying to avoid doing weekly water changes and would do so if it proved beneficial

 

[fatheadminnow]

Id just like to say that the above comments about water changes NEEDING to be once a week doesnt ring true..Well at least in my situation.

I have a very healthy 110 litre tank and it takes 14 days for my nitrAtes to reach 40 ppm.

My tank isnt heavily stocked which may help alot

Just making this point because I believe in most cases weekly water changes may be recommended, however in other situations they may not be needed.

You make a very good point mickspark81.

However there are other things to take into consideration when doing water changes, not just the nitrate level.

If two weeks works fine for you than that's just okay, but here is why a more frequent water change is more beneficial for our fish.

Water, like I stated above, holds beneficial minerals and vitamins for fish. Fish are very sensitive to water changes like temp, different levels in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and other things in the water.

Another thing is that water conditioners also hold beneficial minerals for fish. I know the API water conditioner and some others have Aloe Vera in it and other things that help the fish's slime coat to help prevent the loss of electrolytes.

Most people, I included, like to double up on water conditioner when doing water changes, just to add extra nutrition to the water.

It is really easy to monitor Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH levels in a tank, but not so easy, or really at all possible, to measure what kind and of how much beneficial minerals are in the water. So it is best to perform more frequent, once a week, water changes to keep a good healthy and usable level of these beneficial minerals in the water for our fish.

-FHM

Just a question but...Couldnt i just add the conditioner to my tank every week without actually changing the water?
This way i would be replacing minerals whilst still doing 14 day water changes

The reason why i ask is because my nitrAtes level in my tap water is 10 ppm and after 1 week goes up to around 22ppm.

Im not trying to avoid doing weekly water changes and would do so if it proved beneficial

Yeah, I am sure that would work just fine.

The only thing is, you are still not going to get the beneficial minerals found in water.

In the wild, there is always a flow of fresh new water into streams, rivers, ponds, lakes and the ocean. So the fish there are always in the abundance of trace beneficial minerals. So holding off for two weeks on water changes is still not for the fishes beset interest Also, the fish are going to adapt to your schedule/when you do water changes. In other words, your fish are going to adapt to your water conditions. So it is not bad at all that you are doing water changes every two weeks, as your fish, I am sure, have adapted to your water conditions. But if you do decide to go to once a week, your fish are most likely going to benefit more from that and be a little healthier. So it is important also to find a schedule that works for you, and stick to it.

I mean, water changes are not that hard, and I actually look forward and enjoy doing them. It is also during a water change I clean the glass on the tank, inside and out.

Also, I have a fairly heavily planted tank, and plants use ammonia and nitrates as a source of extra nutrients. At the end of 1 week for me, when I do my water changes, my NitrAte reading is normally 5 ppm/maybe 10 ppm, but I still do the water change just because I know how much it benefits my fish.

Like I said, it is up to you really, I am not hear to tell you what to do, just to give you good advice. It is your choice to decide whether or not to do a water change every week or every two weeks.

But if you fish are looking fine, and you have been doing water changes every 2 weeks, then I would just stick with that. And like you said, you can add water conditioner to the tank once a week if you like to add trace minerals back to the water for the fish.

I would maybe suggest to make a new thread in the Tropical Discussion section in this forum about weekly water changes, just to see what other people have to say about it.

-FHM

 

[mickspark81]

Id just like to say that the above comments about water changes NEEDING to be once a week doesnt ring true..Well at least in my situation.

I have a very healthy 110 litre tank and it takes 14 days for my nitrAtes to reach 40 ppm.

My tank isnt heavily stocked which may help alot

Just making this point because I believe in most cases weekly water changes may be recommended, however in other situations they may not be needed.

You make a very good point mickspark81.

However there are other things to take into consideration when doing water changes, not just the nitrate level.

If two weeks works fine for you than that's just okay, but here is why a more frequent water change is more beneficial for our fish.

Water, like I stated above, holds beneficial minerals and vitamins for fish. Fish are very sensitive to water changes like temp, different levels in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and other things in the water.

Another thing is that water conditioners also hold beneficial minerals for fish. I know the API water conditioner and some others have Aloe Vera in it and other things that help the fish's slime coat to help prevent the loss of electrolytes.

Most people, I included, like to double up on water conditioner when doing water changes, just to add extra nutrition to the water.

It is really easy to monitor Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH levels in a tank, but not so easy, or really at all possible, to measure what kind and of how much beneficial minerals are in the water. So it is best to perform more frequent, once a week, water changes to keep a good healthy and usable level of these beneficial minerals in the water for our fish.

-FHM

Just a question but...Couldnt i just add the conditioner to my tank every week without actually changing the water?
This way i would be replacing minerals whilst still doing 14 day water changes

The reason why i ask is because my nitrAtes level in my tap water is 10 ppm and after 1 week goes up to around 22ppm.

Im not trying to avoid doing weekly water changes and would do so if it proved beneficial

Yeah, I am sure that would work just fine.

The only thing is, you are still not going to get the beneficial minerals found in water.

In the wild, there is always a flow of fresh new water into streams, rivers, ponds, lakes and the ocean. So the fish there are always in the abundance of trace beneficial minerals. So holding off for two weeks on water changes is still not for the fishes beset interest Also, the fish are going to adapt to your schedule/when you do water changes. In other words, your fish are going to adapt to your water conditions. So it is not bad at all that you are doing water changes every two weeks, as your fish, I am sure, have adapted to your water conditions. But if you do decide to go to once a week, your fish are most likely going to benefit more from that and be a little healthier. So it is important also to find a schedule that works for you, and stick to it.

I mean, water changes are not that hard, and I actually look forward and enjoy doing them. It is also during a water change I clean the glass on the tank, inside and out.

Also, I have a fairly heavily planted tank, and plants use ammonia and nitrates as a source of extra nutrients. At the end of 1 week for me, when I do my water changes, my NitrAte reading is normally 5 ppm/maybe 10 ppm, but I still do the water change just because I know how much it benefits my fish.

Like I said, it is up to you really, I am not hear to tell you what to do, just to give you good advice. It is your choice to decide whether or not to do a water change every week or every two weeks.

But if you fish are looking fine, and you have been doing water changes every 2 weeks, then I would just stick with that. And like you said, you can add water conditioner to the tank once a week if you like to add trace minerals back to the water for the fish.

I would maybe suggest to make a new thread in the Tropical Discussion section in this forum about weekly water changes, just to see what other people have to say about it.

-FHM

Tbh m8 that was very sound advice.

I used to perform weekly changes but decided on fortnightly ones simply because of nitrAte readings.
However i will revert back to my old ways of weekly 20% changes as id like my fish to thrive.

I change my turtles tank water once weekly so it wasnt coz im lazy

Oh one final note tho. Another point is this...maybe..the higher your GH and KH then the less frequent the water changes need to be. (as the mineral content may not need refreshing as much)....just a thought....

 

[fatheadminnow]

Id just like to say that the above comments about water changes NEEDING to be once a week doesnt ring true..Well at least in my situation.

I have a very healthy 110 litre tank and it takes 14 days for my nitrAtes to reach 40 ppm.

My tank isnt heavily stocked which may help alot

Just making this point because I believe in most cases weekly water changes may be recommended, however in other situations they may not be needed.

You make a very good point mickspark81.

However there are other things to take into consideration when doing water changes, not just the nitrate level.

If two weeks works fine for you than that's just okay, but here is why a more frequent water change is more beneficial for our fish.

Water, like I stated above, holds beneficial minerals and vitamins for fish. Fish are very sensitive to water changes like temp, different levels in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and other things in the water.

Another thing is that water conditioners also hold beneficial minerals for fish. I know the API water conditioner and some others have Aloe Vera in it and other things that help the fish's slime coat to help prevent the loss of electrolytes.

Most people, I included, like to double up on water conditioner when doing water changes, just to add extra nutrition to the water.

It is really easy to monitor Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH levels in a tank, but not so easy, or really at all possible, to measure what kind and of how much beneficial minerals are in the water. So it is best to perform more frequent, once a week, water changes to keep a good healthy and usable level of these beneficial minerals in the water for our fish.

-FHM

Just a question but...Couldnt i just add the conditioner to my tank every week without actually changing the water?
This way i would be replacing minerals whilst still doing 14 day water changes

The reason why i ask is because my nitrAtes level in my tap water is 10 ppm and after 1 week goes up to around 22ppm.

Im not trying to avoid doing weekly water changes and would do so if it proved beneficial

Yeah, I am sure that would work just fine.

The only thing is, you are still not going to get the beneficial minerals found in water.

In the wild, there is always a flow of fresh new water into streams, rivers, ponds, lakes and the ocean. So the fish there are always in the abundance of trace beneficial minerals. So holding off for two weeks on water changes is still not for the fishes beset interest Also, the fish are going to adapt to your schedule/when you do water changes. In other words, your fish are going to adapt to your water conditions. So it is not bad at all that you are doing water changes every two weeks, as your fish, I am sure, have adapted to your water conditions. But if you do decide to go to once a week, your fish are most likely going to benefit more from that and be a little healthier. So it is important also to find a schedule that works for you, and stick to it.

I mean, water changes are not that hard, and I actually look forward and enjoy doing them. It is also during a water change I clean the glass on the tank, inside and out.

Also, I have a fairly heavily planted tank, and plants use ammonia and nitrates as a source of extra nutrients. At the end of 1 week for me, when I do my water changes, my NitrAte reading is normally 5 ppm/maybe 10 ppm, but I still do the water change just because I know how much it benefits my fish.

Like I said, it is up to you really, I am not hear to tell you what to do, just to give you good advice. It is your choice to decide whether or not to do a water change every week or every two weeks.

But if you fish are looking fine, and you have been doing water changes every 2 weeks, then I would just stick with that. And like you said, you can add water conditioner to the tank once a week if you like to add trace minerals back to the water for the fish.

I would maybe suggest to make a new thread in the Tropical Discussion section in this forum about weekly water changes, just to see what other people have to say about it.

-FHM

Tbh m8 that was very sound advice.

I used to perform weekly changes but decided on fortnightly ones simply because of nitrAte readings.
However i will revert back to my old ways of weekly 20% changes as id like my fish to thrive.

I change my turtles tank water once weekly so it wasnt coz im lazy

Oh one final note tho. Another point is this...maybe..the higher your GH and KH then the less frequent the water changes need to be. (as the mineral content may not need refreshing as much)....just a thought....

That is a good point, but unfortunately I do not know much about KH and GH. All I know about KH is, that if it is higher, say around 3 or more, than your pH is going to be less likely to fluctuate.

You should really make a thread about it, and see what other people have to say about all of this and water changes.

-FHM

 

[DCB]

thanks for all the replies guys uv given me loads of good tips (i posted the same request on a different forum and i got 1 reply after 2 days) I'll be using TFF from now on.

I did a 10% water last night and another 1 today, my dwarf is looking a lot better today hes swimming and eating normaly, hes still stitting on the bottom but not as much as he was and hea not leaning to 1 side anymore, the rest of my fish seem fine, I add the second dose of the anti internal infection tomorrow so hopefully hes gona pull through.

ill do weekly water changes from now on and iv just orderd an API test kits off ebay (ill post my ammonia levels when it arrives)

thanks again for all ur help guys