Please Help Fish Keep Dying!

[kvnkne]

I need some advice. I have had this 75 gallon freshwater tank since 5/15/2010. It was a used tank it was taken apart and thoroughly cleaned and rinsed many times. I put it back together and filled. After a couple days added gravel and plants and started to cycle.
Specs are:
75 gallon Freshwater tank
Reef/Lake Systems Wet/Dry Sump filter with bio balls
Aquatec 15 power filter added when problems arose
Marineland Stealth 250 Heater
temp at a constant 79 degrees

I have a 29 gallon fully cycled tank set up as a qt tank that I originally had 1 pink gourami, 4 tiger barbs, 2 gold gourami. They were added to the 75 later so now that tank is empty.

I started taking test readings when I got the api master test kit on 5/30
I use Api stress coat+, Api stress zyme+, and Api aquarium salt
Added fish on 6/30 for with fish cycling from 29 gallon tank

Started with PH 7.6, Amon 1.0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate, 0
6/30 PH 7.6, Amon 1.0, Nitrite 0, nitrate 0 20%water change
7/3 PH 7.4, Amon 1.0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0
7/5 PH 7.6, Amon 1.0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0
7/7 PH 7.6, Amon 1.5, Nitrite .25, Nitrate 2.0, 25%water change
7/9 PH 7.6, Amon 2.0, Nitrite .50, Nitrate 10, 25%water change
7/10 PH 7.6, Amon 1.0, Nitrite 5.0, Nitrate 40, 25%water change
7/11 PH 7.4, Amon .25, Nitrite 5.0, Nitrate 40,
7/12 PH 7.0, Amon 0, Nitrite 2.0, Nitrate 20
7/13 PH 7.0, Amon 0, Nitrite 5.0, Nitrate 20, 25%water change
7/14 PH 6.8, Amon 0, Nitrite 2.0, Nitrate 5.0
7/15 PH 7.4, Amon .25, Nitrite 2.0, Nitrate 5.0, 25%water change
7/16 PH 6.5, Amon .25, Nitrite .25, Nitrate 5.0
7/18 PH 6.4, Amon .50, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0
7/21 PH 6.4, Amon .50, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 2.0, 25%water change


On 7/3 I had 2 pink gourami, 2 opaline gourami, 2 gold gourami, 2 blue gourami, and 8 tiger barbs. Everyone was healthy and eating well. Barbs stayed schooled and did not nip fins. Pink gouramis were kissing and everyone seemed well. Slowly the tiger barbs started dying one by one. Each day i would come and one more was dead. Then the larger blue gourami turned a very dark blue and started behaving erratically. I put him in the qt tank and he lived about 2 days then died. I was still losing a barb or 2 every day. When I was doing the water changes I was using the stress coat and adding bacteria as well as replacing the salt to appropriate levels. I thought everything was leveling out then all test levels went haywire. I am now down to 1 pink gourami, 1 gold gourami, 1 opaline gourami, 1 blue gourami, and 2 tiger barbs. Its now 7/24 and Im at wits end. PetSmart says water levels are fine, but Im not going to put any more fish in to their deaths. I feed the fish one time a day and only enough that they will eat. Sometimes they do sometimes they dont. The I turn the filters back on the remove the waste food. Any help would be appreciated. I dont want to watch anymore of my fish die.

Thanks anyone who has some advice

 

[mattlee]

did you add the cycled media from the cycled tank into the new tank? if not that should have been the first thing to have done.... it would have carried the bioload from your current set up and instantly cycled the new tank for your stocking.
from how i have read it it sounds like you are now in a fishin cycle and the extra bioload from the new fish arent helping! this is probably down to your fish dying as they are being poisoned by the ammonia levels in the water.
if this is your situation then you need to be doing large water changes daily and in a tank of that size will be a right pain in the backside due to the amount of water needed to be replaced..... also you will need plenty of dechlorinator!
also the filters need to be running 24/7 as the bacteria needs to be fed by the amounts of ammonia produced by the fish otherwise it will not thrive and keep up with the fishes bioload. it may take several weeks/months for your tank to cycle so i would be prepared to do plenty of water changes and maybe lose a few more fish...!
check your water stats 2x a day and do the relevant water change thats required. for example if you get a reading or 0.5ppm for ammonia then a 50% water change will reduce it to 0.25ppm meaning another 50% water change is required immediatley im affraid as ammonia is harmfull at any levels above 0....

 

[mtv8dmarine]

It looks like your tank never cycled. It looks like between 7/12 - 7/14 it kicked the ammonia and went into the second cycling stage but then reverted back.

I'm not experienced with tanks over 55 gal. but I do know that really anything over 55 gal. is picky with proper water parameters. Fish are sensitive to ammonia and nitrite levels and thus, anything above 0 is harmful or fatal.

Just a side question but why are you using salt? Salt is used to help fight tank issues and stimulate slime coat. Is there any reason why the fish wouldn't be healthy? Granted there are probably an equal number of people that would say that salt should be in a gourami tank as those that say completely freshwater and no salt does them just fine too.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Well briefly scanning your post...

Welcome to death by ammonia poisoning!

If ammonia is present at levels above 0.1, you should be doing 80%+ water changes daily (basically emptying th tank of all but a tiny amount of water for your fish to float in) until such times at you get a run of 7 successive days reading of zero.

If ammonia readings are above zero but less than 0.1, a 50% water change should be get-awayable.

• How much food are you feeding these fish? As a guideline, each fish needs food about the size of its eye daily (with a "day of famine" once a week being good practice), which is roughly the size of its stomach. More than that will risk excess food rotting (giving ammonia) or greedy fish eating it and then producing extra waste (ammonia).
• I'm at a loss how this has all gone "pear-shaped." You had a mature 29 gallon with seven fish in it, all fine and dandy. You should have been able "seed" the new 75g tank with media from the 29g; used ammonia daily to "fishless-cycle" it very quickly; added the 29g fish once a "qualifying week" of zero reading for ammonia and nitrite had elapsed; added new stock conservatively every two weeks for at least the first couple of months.
• Your log suggest that you added your initial fish too quickly and then threw some more in for good measure, making it a tradegy in the making "fish-in cycle", when combined with woefully inadequate water changes (you were not doing anything when ammonia read 1 some days; while readings of 2 brought about 25% changes instead of emergency 90% changes... possibly two in the space of a few hours).
• Then there is those wild pH swings... Between 6.4 and 7.6! Added anything like "pH down" or changed substrate or furniture? What kH and gH readings do you get from your water i.e. its hardness?

No doubt a whole host of other things can be looked at from your post, but that's all my mushed brain can think of right now, while I'm wiped from my 0520 start this morning and my cold making me feel the most wooly it has done all week...

 

[kvnkne]

I guess you guys have answered what I thought the problem was. Im going to do a massive water change today and keep doing them per your instruction. I do use a water conditioner when doing changes and I was doing 29 gallon water changes not 25 percent. The vessel I use to change the water is 1 1/2 gallons. It is a little time consuming but for the fish to be healthy and stop dying ill do anything. Im not sure why the ph has changed so radically. I need to get a test kit to test the tap water. What is the best one for that? Thank you all for your input.

 

[mattlee]

pH is normal to drop during a cycle

 

[mtv8dmarine]

kvnkne,

I wanted to just say thank you for providing us the detailed details you did. It's very nice to have as much info. up front as possible without having to ask a whole slew of general questions just to get the info. Your level of detail was a welcomed surprise!

 

[Assaye]

OK.

You are cycling the tank with fish. You have taken regular ammonia and nitrite readings which show multiple instances of elevated ammonia and nitrite. You are doing small, infrequent water changes. You are now losing fish.

If you are cycling with fish and not doing water changes every single time the ammonia or nitrite climb above zero, the fish will get ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

There is nothing you can do now to reverse the damage but you can still help the fish. Do twice daily water tests and removing most of the water from the tank whenever the levels climb. In each water change session you need to remove enough water that when you re-test 20 minutes later (after the new water is mixed in) there is not enough ammonia and nitrite to register on the test kit.

The bacteria only need tiny, tiny levels of ammonia. The tank will not cycle any faster or slower with water changes. What the water changes do is keep your fish safe from the excess ammonia and nitrite.

IN SHORT - your fish have been poisoned.

EDIT - I see you've already responded. Nice one. Keep up with the water changes!

 

[kvnkne]

Just finished a 75% water change, took a while and am soaked but I will test again here in 15 min or so. How frequently can I change out water. Or can i change whenever levels rise. This is really my first tank so I wanted to give all the details to get unanimous responses. Just got test results:

PH 6.9, Amon .25-0 in between, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. Does this mean I have to start the cycle all over again. Ive added Stress Zyme to wet/dry filter. And should I do another water change later tonight. I dont want to stress the fish anymore than I have too.

 

[Assaye]

Doing water changes will not stop your cycle and you want to change the water whenever levels rise

Obviously make sure you temperature match the water, add water conditioner and hoover the gravel as well. A good water change isn't very stressful - certainly less stressful than ammonia and nitrites!

 

[kvnkne]

keep helping please

 

[Assaye]

keep helping please

What more do you want to know?

At this stage, you just need to keep up with the water changes and testing.

 

[kvnkne]

Well guys, I have been doing the 80 percent water changes daily and my test readings are always as follows PH 6.4, Ammonia 0-.25, nitrate 0, nitrite 0. This morning I have only 1 blue gourami, 1 opaline gourami, and 1 pink gourami. All the barbs are gone and the one remaining went missing. I Tested my qt tank and the reading s were, Ph 6.4, Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 40ppm, I made sure the temps were matching and I got the fish out of the larger tank. On returning home from work they are all alive and seemingly doing fine. I just could stand to let them die. I know they still might because ammonia poisoning isnt reversible but what can I say. I have pulled out all the ornamentation from the large tank and i guess Im going to try a fishless cycle. I know there is forums for this here but I just wanted to let those know who helped me what had happened. I guess the ammonia had been to high for too long. The loss of my bright gold gourami made the decision that much clearer, he was the nicest in the tank. Sucks

 

[OldMan47]

I will give you more unasked for advice. Stop adding salt. The fish you keep are sensitive to salt and no freshwater fish need salt ever unless they are showing symptoms of specific diseases. By salting your water, you are making it harder for the fish to survive the poisoning they are seeing from the cycle.
Your smaller tank will be easier to maintain for ammonia and nitrites so that was probably a good move to go to the smaller tank. If it has not been too long since it was in use, you may even have some surviving bacterial colony that can be regrown into a thriving colony to support your remaining fish. Once you have a nice healthy filter in that 29, you can also clean it in the larger tank to give the cycle in the 75 a boost but in the short term any progress you make in the 75 will be that much more cycle behind you.