Please Help - Fish Death Epidemic

[silverchild23]

Please Help! It seems I have a fish death epidemic in my tank and I have no idea what it is or what is causing it.

I just dont understand it. All stats are fine (see below) and all my original fish are perfectly healthy (see below - all the ones that survived are my originals), but it seems every time I try add a new fish to the tank they all contract the same thing.

SYMPTOMS: Literally happens within 12 hours. Fish swimming and eating healthily for up to 10 days. In the time I go to work / sleep, I'll get back/wake up and the particular fish will be at the top of the water near the filter outlet gasping (near surface not actually at it) and swimming listlessly. Within 12 Hours the fish will be dead. The latest death was rather unique as I had a chance to see him all the way to the end, he tried hard to fight whatever it was, and swam around the top of the tank gasping in a similar fashion to the others. Then suddenly he seemed to cough up what looked like white old food / dead skin - then he keeled over upsidedown and died (I took him out and euthenased him before he could literally drown to death).

Apart from that there are no other symptoms. Gasping followed by a quick death. I dont understand as none of the original tankmates have got signs of anything like this and this has been happening over a 2 month-or-so period.

I thought it might be internal parasites so I have treated over time with extra aeration, increased water changes, Interpet No.9, as well as Interpet No.5 (General Tonic), octozyn, and flubinol 15 (obviously not all at the same time and over a long period of time). No avail.

Casualties (Added and lost over time in order, first to last): two rummynose tetra, blue ram male, blue ram female, kribensis female, kribensis male.

Please Help! I need to know what's wrong with them and what I can do to prevent this from happening again.


TANK: Juwel Rio 240L, Eheim External Pro II filter, Heater/Thermostat, Medium Planted, Fine and Semi-fine substrate, Large Slate Cave, Duckweed floating plants, synthetic mangrove roots, Bubbler.
STATS: Temperature 26 C / Ammonia 0 / Nitrite 0 / Nitrate approx .20 / Copper 0-0.25 / Water Colour CLEAR / Water Smell NORMAL EARTHY SMELL
ORIGINAL (&REMAINING) FISH: 4xAngelfish, 4xKeyhole Cichlids, 1xRam, 6xRummynose Tetra, 2xBN Plecos.

 

[stang1]

So sorry for your loss.
It sounds as though they are struggling for oxygen. Have you got the filter positioned so it's creating enough surface agitation? Could your filter be clogged at all? If you position the filter near the top of the water so it almost creates bubbles then that may well help.
Another idea would be to add an airstone. Some people may disagree but we have 2 set up in one of our tanks and it does a great job.

 

[silverchild23]

Thanks - but I really dont think it's struggling for oxygen.

We have a bubbler on half the time, and the filter outlet is set up as to create good bubbling ripples on the surface. We dont have too much current because of the angels' preferred environment.

In any case, the rest of the fish that are much bigger than the casualties are doing, and have always done fine for O2.

 

[silverchild23]

BUMP

*Any Ideas?*

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Internal bacteria is a common cause of sudden unexplained deaths, some questions first though;
a. What are the fishes body weight like? Bloated/fat, underweight/skinny etc at all? Any sunken looking stomaches?
b. What is their poop like- white and stringy looking at all?
c. What are you feeding them? Post feeding regime in detail, plus list of fish that have died etc.
d. What is the temp in the tank?
e. How long has this been going on for now?
f. What are the activity levels of the fish like in general?
g. How long are the tank lights kept on per day?
h. What are their colours like- are they faded looking at all, whether overal or just faded looking in patches etc?

 

[silverchild23]

Internal bacteria is a common cause of sudden unexplained deaths, some questions first though;
a. What are the fishes body weight like? Bloated/fat, underweight/skinny etc at all? Any sunken looking stomaches?
b What is their poop like- white and stringy looking at all?
c. What are you feeding them? Post feeding regime in detail, plus list of fish that have died etc.
d. What is the temp in the tank?
e. How long has this been going on for now?
f. What are the activity levels of the fish like in general?
g. How long are the tank lights kept on per day?
h. What are their colours like- are they faded looking at all, whether overal or just faded looking in patches etc?

Ok...

a) Fish were all seemingly a healthy weight (by that I mean, bellies were nicely proportioned and looked very natural for each species.
b. Poop was different hues of green or red, but never white.
c) Feed them a mixture of high-quality tetra flake and sinking cichlid granuals (enough to be eaten in one/two mins)once in the morning and once at night. Once every two weeks they get either live brine shrimp or sachets of bloodworm. Now and again they get floating cichlid pellets. And I put one pleco algae wafer in a day.
d) Tank temp is 26C
e) This has been going on for roughly two months, from the time we bought the first addition to the tank to the time the last one died. But none of the original fish have ever been effected.
f) All fish are highly active. The angels glide around the water, generally in the top half of the tank. The keyholes parade around the bottom, nosing throught the substrate whenever they can. The blue ram is feisty and likes to hang out with the angels, but sometimes parades around the bottom too. The plecos are seemingly always active, eating whatevers left on the floor, sucking on the walls and the plants. The rummynose tetra are very active always fleeting about in their group. With all the ones that died, they were all swimming about happily; the rams were active and swam over all the tank; the kribs were active and scavenged the bottom of the tank and loved the plants. Literally suddenly, they would begin to breathe heavily and within twelve hours, despite internal parasite meds and extra aeration, were dead.
g)Tank lights are on roughly twelve/thirteen hours a day (from when I get up to the evening).
h)All the current tank inhabitants have vivid colours, and the keyholes are very settled (only increasing their colour every now and again). When the casualties started to breathe heavily their colours faded (and increased in the case of the female ram).

 

[silverchild23]

BUMP

Does anybody have any ideas as to what it could be?

 

[silverchild23]

BUMPETY BUMP BUMP BUMP

 

[bubblybabs]

Then suddenly he seemed to cough up what looked like white old food / dead skin -

Are you sure it was old food/dead skin and not some plastic or something? I dunno, grasping at straws here... I've heard of new fish dying and old ones living due to high nitrates but your nitrates are good... Sure sounds like something is covering the gills of the new fish and the old ones have become immune to it...

Babs

 

[PufferFishRule]

air stones work great in this type of situation! i run 1 in my 29gal malawi tank and they seem to enjoy it...although soon my cichlids will be in there new home! 55gal!! woohoo! ...2 airstone will be used..but like last post said..could have been other things...

 

[Jozlyn]

Do you have a Quarantine Tank? Might be worth the investment if all of your new fish are dying off, QT them for at least two weeks before carefully introducing them to the main tank.

When you add the new fish to your tank, do you float their bag in the water, then slowly add cup fulls of your water to the bag before netting them out and putting them in?

What are the tanks like where you buy your fish from? Are they nice and clean? Do they have any dead fish in them?

Was there any discolouration around the dead fishes gills, eg redness?

What's your Ph, Gh & Kh?

What additives do you use? Dechlorinator? Salt?

That's about the only questions I can think of to ask! Everything else has been covered!

 

[silverchild23]

Do you have a Quarantine Tank? Might be worth the investment if all of your new fish are dying off, QT them for at least two weeks before carefully introducing them to the main tank.

When you add the new fish to your tank, do you float their bag in the water, then slowly add cup fulls of your water to the bag before netting them out and putting them in?

What are the tanks like where you buy your fish from? Are they nice and clean? Do they have any dead fish in them?

Was there any discolouration around the dead fishes gills, eg redness?

What's your Ph, Gh & Kh?

What additives do you use? Dechlorinator? Salt?

That's about the only questions I can think of to ask! Everything else has been covered!

Thanks for the replies (unfortunately I had to go on hols for four days and leave the tank in the care of my old man).

The final casualty came to one of the originals. A beautiful BN Plec male that we've had since the beginning. V Sad.
Since then, nothing has happened (Touching Wood!). The tank seems fine and everything looks healthy in there.

BEfore I went on hols I took some advice and tested some of the other water parameters including the pH, kH and gH. It produced some results that were unexpected. To be very honest, as I dont measure the kH and gH often, I'd be lying if I said I could remember the exact results off the top of my head. The pH was still a neat 7.5. Both the kH and gH were at the top end of the 'comfort zone' I know that much. And comparing the results on a CO2 chart showed that the CO2 levels were slightly too high - leading me to beleive that perhaps the O2 levels might be fairly low.

As a result, before I went on hols I set up the tank with numerous timers (for lights etc.) and set up the bubbler to come on intermittently throughout the day (rather than switching it on before and after work). I am hoping that this will settle out the readings of the tank and in any case make the fish feel a little happier. I'll re-test the parameters in a couple of days.

It's still a mystery - it all seemed to start when we put the first batch of tetra in the tank (a couple of which died). I just hope that if it is/was a disease then it might have dissapaited after water changes etc.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i would definately set up a q tank, also experiement with getting fish from a different lfs, it could simply be that they buy they're fish from cheap breeders and sources and as such get weak stock who while they'll eb ok in a tank that everything's OK in, will quite easily keel over at the first hint of trouble.

 

[tetraqueen]

I too had this problem at the beggining and have kept my tank the same for a while now and also to ensure stock levels are optimum.

Is the tank big enough to accept more fish ?

I am not experience and this may get laughed at but when you add fish you say lights are on all day, i do not think this is good to settle them in. I'd a;ways leave then a day to settle in the dark. Is it due to plants you need so much light. I've gone now to no lights and my fish are happier.
I also always allow the fish to settle in the bag floating to get accustomed to temp.
I think a q tank is a great idea as some fish come ill even if they look settled transporting them home can scare them.

 

[silverchild23]

The tank has a good surface area and is a good size - the only fish I have tried to add are dwarf cichlids as they dont grow too large. Plus - one of the angels is a runt and has never grown so he takes up no space at all.

I always switch the lights off and settle the bag (even temp in water and add small amounts of tank water before transferring them) when introducing the fish. I just keep lights on during the day and there's nothing wrong with that. As I said they're all very active, happy fish.