Please Help... Beginner Aqua Hobbyists

[Drew&Dora]

Hi,
My girlfriend and I are new to fish keeping. We've visited many pet stores and did a lot of research on our own about getting started. As of right now, we have live plants, two dwarf gouramis, and three dalmation mollies ( 1 male, 2 females: as recommended by PetSmart). We just recently found out that mollies are better suited for brackish aquariums while dwarf guoramis do better in fresh water aquariums. We have a 30g tank and already added the required amount of conditioning salt (Top Fin brand). We were wondering if anyone else had more opinions about mixing these two types of fish together. It's only our second day of having them in our aquarium and we are concerned about what will happen in the long run.

Thanks,

Drew&Dora

 

[Tolak]

The mollys will do better without salt than the gouramis will do with it. All the buddies of mine who breed mollys do so without adding salt.

 

[Drew&Dora]

The mollys will do better without salt than the gouramis will do with it. All the buddies of mine who breed mollys do so without adding salt.

Thank you for your reply. We called PetSmart (where we got both fish) and they said that the guorami's should be fine because they use the salt in their water. We followed the instructions on the label... and the fish appear to be happy and active... our two male guorami's were actually following eachother around earlier This seems like a good sign of health since they seem active and eating well.

How familiar are you with dalmation molly's? Reason I ask... it seems the male we have likes to "bully" the other two female dalmation molly's we have n eat all the food.

Thanks again,

Drew and Dora

 

[Drew&Dora]

On another note about our guorami's research tells us that they are top-mid level dwellers... however we find that they like to hide under the plants/log. Is this normal?

Thank you,
Drew&Dora

 

[Tolak]

A word to the wise; getting aquatics advice from Petsmart, Petco, or any of the corporate chains is like getting nutrition advice from the kid working at McDonalds. They may mean well, but they really aren't that knowledgeable, their main job is to sell product.

They would love to sell you all the salt, with their Top Fin name on it, that they can. For an interesting topic on salt check this out; [URL="http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/19...ater-Flounder-/"]http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/19...ater-Flounder-/[/URL]

I use salt in my brine shrimp hatchery only, $3 for a 50 pound bag of cattle feed salt. This will give you some idea of markup on those pretty little containers of salt.

Mollys, like all livebearers, are very oriented towards eating and reproducing. Males will aggravate females almost constantly, that is why it is best to have at least 2 females per every male. Your m/f ratio is good, adding some more decorations to provide hiding places for the females will help, toss a little flake near the male first, then some towads the females will help as well.

BTW, welcome to TFF!

***Edit To Add***

Since you are getting advice from Petsmart, is the tank cycled, how did you cycle it, and how did Petsmart tell you to cycle it? This might explain the gouramis hiding.

 

[Drew&Dora]

Thank you for the welcome

We we told that with our new tank we should set it up with the filter (we have Aqua Clear 3000 for 50 gal tank but we actually have a 30 gal), condition the water to treat for chlorine, add the gravel, decorations, live plants, and set the heater so the water is 77F. After this is all up and running they said to wait at least 24 hours before getting fish. 24 hours later we went to get our fish... and they said that with the new fish we should watch our KH, GH, PH, and ammonia levels. If they are off balance we should do frequent 10-25% water changes to try and balance the levels before trying any added chemicals to balance the levels. They also said that the Nitrogen cycle should still continue even though we are changing the water... but it will help level out the KH, GH, PH, and clear ammonia so that the fish will remain healthy.

I noticed that the guorami's were like this when we first introduced them to the tank... we let them sit in their bags floating on the surface of the tank... then added some water to the bags... let them sit for another 15 min... then released them into the water. After a few hours they became more n more active. We just changed the water again because we found that our PH was off... and there was a little ammonia in the water. Then one of them went into hiding again... the other one is lingering at the surface... which seems normal. Could it be that the other guorami just got a little scared when we changed the water. The molly's on the other hang, seem very active... they are swimming around chasing eachother in their little school

Thanks again!

 

[Tolak]

Typical Petsmart advice. First, read this on new tanks and cycling; http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...-tank-syndrome/

The entire list of beginner links can be found here; http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...ease-Read-Here/

Do not worry about pH, gH,or kH. The one you have to worry about first is ammonia, after that nitrite. Cycling can take anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks, it will help if you can get some cycled media from someone, there is a list of media donors here; http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...ia-To-Newbies-/

Any additive for pH will cause pH swings, hardness, which is your gH & kH, stabilizes pH. You can not add anything to lower hardness, as hardness is dissolved minerals. Another thing to take into account is total dissolved solids, which is anything added to your tank water. This will increase as well by adding anything marketed to adjust pH or hardness. All these thing work hand in hand, adjusting pH & hardness is nothing a beginner wants to get into, to do it properly you have to start with reverse osmosis or distilled water. This gives you a blank slate so to speak, 0gH, 0kH, 0tds, 7.0pH. There is a lot of science behind adjusting water parameters.

For now keep an eye on ammonia levels, keep it down with daily water changes. What would actually be best for the health of the fish is to return them, and do a fishless cycle, this way you don't risk any ammonia or nitrite damage to the fish, which can shorten their life at the least, kill them at the worst.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

A word to the wise; getting aquatics advice from Petsmart, Petco, or any of the corporate chains is like getting nutrition advice from the kid working at McDonalds. They may mean well, but they really aren't that knowledgeable, their main job is to sell product.

love that Tolak!!

but yeah just a quick comment to back up what Tolak say's. he knows his stuff and he's on the money with his advice.

 

[Drew&Dora]

A word to the wise; getting aquatics advice from Petsmart, Petco, or any of the corporate chains is like getting nutrition advice from the kid working at McDonalds. They may mean well, but they really aren't that knowledgeable, their main job is to sell product.

love that Tolak!!

but yeah just a quick comment to back up what Tolak say's. he knows his stuff and he's on the money with his advice.

Thank you for all of your help. I think what we will do is check the Ammonia/Nitrite levels morning and night... then if there is anything "fishy" we will do a water change. we have been doing 20% changes as needed so far.

Another couple questions... if we keep doing this... and all goes well when will we know that our tank is fully cycled? We have two kinds of live plants in our tank already. What kind of live plants are good for the health of our fish and tank? I am hoping with constant monitoring and water changes as needed our fish will be okay.

Thanks again!

 

[Tolak]

When you have zero ammonia & zero nitrites, and you are seeing nitrates your tank is cycled. Nitrates are the end result of the nitrification process, you can go up to 50ppm or more before needing a water change.

Any sort of plant is good for the health of your fish as they will use ammonia & to some extent the nitrogen products produced as waste by your fish.

 

[Drew&Dora]

When you have zero ammonia & zero nitrites, and you are seeing nitrates your tank is cycled. Nitrates are the end result of the nitrification process, you can go up to 50ppm or more before needing a water change.

Any sort of plant is good for the health of your fish as they will use ammonia & to some extent the nitrogen products produced as waste by your fish.

So what do you get out of this... at about 6am this morning our ammonia level was at .50, we did a water change. Around 12pm we tested ammonia again and it was 0 but Nitrites read .3. We checked again at 6pm both ammonia and nitrites read 0. It is 9pm and we tested again and ammonia was back at .25 and nitrites at 0.

Is our tank cycling? I forgot to mention that our tank was previously owned as well as the filter... we kept the sponge in the filter that the previous owner used. Is this a good thing since the matured sponge already has the beneficial bacteria?

Thanks again!!!

 

[Tolak]

Yes, your tank is cycling, nitrites is a good sign, it means it is moving along in a reasonable time frame.

If the sponge was not kept wet, or did not have a food source (ammonia) for more than 24 hours you will have a die back in the nitrifying bacteria. Drying out is the worst, it can go without a source of food for at least 24 hours before you start to see any significant die back.

 

[Drew&Dora]

Yes, your tank is cycling, nitrites is a good sign, it means it is moving along in a reasonable time frame.

If the sponge was not kept wet, or did not have a food source (ammonia) for more than 24 hours you will have a die back in the nitrifying bacteria. Drying out is the worst, it can go without a source of food for at least 24 hours before you start to see any significant die back.

Ok... sorry I am still learning how all of this works...

So what can you tell me about what is happening with the cycle by this....

Last night at 9pm we tested for ammonia and Nitrites. Ammonia was .25 and nitrites 0. We did a 20% water change and tested again a couple hours later and the ammonia was still .25. We didn't do a water change but waited to test again at 5:30am this morning. Amazingly, the ammonia read 0 as well as the test for Nitrites. Does this mean that the ammonia that was present at 9pm converted to nitrites then nitrates (we do not have a test for nitrates yet but will get one soon)? If this is true... is this too fast for cycling to occur. Not too sure where to go from here... but I will continue to do daily water changes to minimize the amount of ammonia/nitrites our fish is exposed to. Another question what is the bare minimal amount of ammonia/nitrites the fish should be exposed to. I know the best should be 0 ammonia/0 nitrites... but what is still considered "ok"?

Thanks again!!!

 

[rabbut]

Hi, I wrote a post a little while ago for people in your situation, please [topic="224306"]see here[/topic] to read it, as it may clarify what is going on for you In there I state 0.25 as the maximum tolerable value for a waterchange not to be required, but I would surgest that if you have anything detactable, do a waterchange. Also, don't be afraid of doing large waterchanges, as required, to keep ammonia and nitrite down, especialy if either is above 1. 75% is not bad if ammonia or nitrite are sky high, and some discus keepers do daily 50% waterchanges, so feel free to go for big changes if needs be.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Drew&Dora]

Hi, I wrote a post a little while ago for people in your situation, please [topic="224306"]see here[/topic] to read it, as it may clarify what is going on for you In there I state 0.25 as the maximum tolerable value for a waterchange not to be required, but I would surgest that if you have anything detactable, do a waterchange. Also, don't be afraid of doing large waterchanges, as required, to keep ammonia and nitrite down, especialy if either is above 1. 75% is not bad if ammonia or nitrite are sky high, and some discus keepers do daily 50% waterchanges, so feel free to go for big changes if needs be.

HTH
Rabbut

Thanks a lot!!!