Please Help A Very Confused Newbie!

[rachcake]

Ok where do I start.... it is nearly midnight here in the UK so apologies for any mistakes/being unclear!

bought a 35L tank, left it for a week and made the decision (now realise mistake after reading through this site) to get 3 'hardy' fish... mollys or something? all seemed okay until 1 died, so went to the LFS where we got the fish from, & they suggested that they test the water.

The results weren't great but said 'it's what we'd expect for a new tank, just let it cycle, it can take upto 12 weeks'... turns out i was overfeeding also, so i cut back on that, but every week when we went to get the water re-tested, not much seemed to change.

Week 3 i was told to do a 25% water change, did so, and a week later the ammonia seemed to be better but one of the other levels (can't remember whether it was nitrate or nitrite) seems to be all over the place, I've been told to not do any more water changes as it will 'dilute the problem'???

Onto week 4 of having the fish now and the water was tested tuesday 17/07/12 - ammonia slightly better but again one of the other levels has shot up! and i'm still being told to wait until the tank cycles and sorts itself out? no water changes or anything... but from reading info on this forum, water changes seem to be the best thing to do??? plus the tank is starting to look unclean!

So my questions really are... 1. should i get a kit and start testing myself? if so, how often? 2. shall i do a water change and how much?

3. basically what the hell do i do? i'm being given allsorts of different information! I honestly do not know what to do and where to go from here as nothing seems to be getting better, and im being told the same old thing at the LFS every week!

UPDATE & QUESTIONS POSTED 1/8/12

 

[cool4345]

Do you use strips for testing the water quality or something else?

Also, mollies aren't good for 35 litre tanks (or so i've read).

 

[justin85]

Welcome to the forum.

My first advice would be, Never take advice from that LFS again! I am assuming it was them who told you you not to do any more water changes, verry bad advice and cruel to the fish.

Ok, so it sounds like you have read through some posts on here which is good there is lots of really good info about fish in cycling.

So if I was you first chance you get buy a test kit, you will need one that can test your PH - Ammonia - nitrite - nitrate
There is alot of different products but I have always used liquid test kits, I would suggest ( API Freshwater Master Test Kit ) will cost no more than £20 and will last a long time. Personally when I cycle a tank I test every day but this is personal preference.

More importantly you need to do a water change right away, at the verry least 50% guessing from what you have said maybe more, then test your water and post the results on here so we can help you more, keep a record of your test results on here and I'm sure there will be someone willing to help you through. what are you using to treat your fresh water before adding it to your tank ?

What filter are you using ?
What temperature is your water set to ?

 

[4seasons]

Welcome to the forum.

My first advice would be, Never take advice from that LFS again! I am assuming it was them who told you you not to do any more water changes, verry bad advice and cruel to the fish.

Ok, so it sounds like you have read through some posts on here which is good there is lots of really good info about fish in cycling.

So if I was you first chance you get buy a test kit, you will need one that can test your PH - Ammonia - nitrite - nitrate
There is alot of different products but I have always used liquid test kits, I would suggest ( API Freshwater Master Test Kit ) will cost no more than £20 and will last a long time. Personally when I cycle a tank I test every day but this is personal preference.

More importantly you need to do a water change right away, at the verry least 50% guessing from what you have said maybe more, then test your water and post the results on here so we can help you more, keep a record of your test results on here and I'm sure there will be someone willing to help you through. what are you using to treat your fresh water before adding it to your tank ?

What filter are you using ?
What temperature is your water set to ?

I completely concur. Especially about the advice your LFS have given you. I have had some bad advice from so-called "fish experts" before, but never anything as dumb as not do a water change when you water is out of whack.

Just a few things to add. First, have you read about fish-in cycling in the beginners resource section? If not start here: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/
Second get a liquid test kit like the API Master Freshwater kit mentioned above a.s.a.p. Then test you water once a day at least for ammonia and nitrite until you tank is cycled. Any time that you get a reading of ammonia or nitrite other than 0ppm you need a 70-90% water change. Any time you do a water change use temperature matched dechloriniated water.

Third, you are using a dechlorinator right? That is the only thing that you should always add to you water. If not, we recommend Seachem Prime because it not only remove chlorine from tap water but also detoxifies ammonia and nitrite for up to 24 hours giving the bio-filtration time to remove it without harming your fish. And it is also very concentrated and cost effective.

 

[rachcake]

Do you use strips for testing the water quality or something else?

Also, mollies aren't good for 35 litre tanks (or so i've read).

The LFS use liquid type of test

 

[rachcake]

Welcome to the forum.

My first advice would be, Never take advice from that LFS again! I am assuming it was them who told you you not to do any more water changes, verry bad advice and cruel to the fish.

Ok, so it sounds like you have read through some posts on here which is good there is lots of really good info about fish in cycling.

So if I was you first chance you get buy a test kit, you will need one that can test your PH - Ammonia - nitrite - nitrate
There is alot of different products but I have always used liquid test kits, I would suggest ( API Freshwater Master Test Kit ) will cost no more than £20 and will last a long time. Personally when I cycle a tank I test every day but this is personal preference.

More importantly you need to do a water change right away, at the verry least 50% guessing from what you have said maybe more, then test your water and post the results on here so we can help you more, keep a record of your test results on here and I'm sure there will be someone willing to help you through. what are you using to treat your fresh water before adding it to your tank ?

What filter are you using ?
What temperature is your water set to ?

I completely concur. Especially about the advice your LFS have given you. I have had some bad advice from so-called "fish experts" before, but never anything as dumb as not do a water change when you water is out of whack.

Just a few things to add. First, have you read about fish-in cycling in the beginners resource section? If not start here: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/
Second get a liquid test kit like the API Master Freshwater kit mentioned above a.s.a.p. Then test you water once a day at least for ammonia and nitrite until you tank is cycled. Any time that you get a reading of ammonia or nitrite other than 0ppm you need a 70-90% water change. Any time you do a water change use temperature matched dechloriniated water.

Third, you are using a dechlorinator right? That is the only thing that you should always add to you water. If not, we recommend Seachem Prime because it not only remove chlorine from tap water but also detoxifies ammonia and nitrite for up to 24 hours giving the bio-filtration time to remove it without harming your fish. And it is also very concentrated and cost effective.

Yep I've got 'tapsafe' but will buy seachem prime asap and a water test kit! so will the water change be ok to do with the tapsafe for now, until i get the seachem prime?... do i leave the water to sit with it in until its room temperature, and then do the change? sorry i didn't realise HOW new i was to this until i joined this forum!!

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Unless I have missed them during a read of the post, I cannot see any specific test result readings, so my generalised advice that should not cause any issues is...

Change ~95% of the current water, basically just leaving enough of the old water to cover the fish on the floor. Remember to turn off any heater and let it cool for at least 10 minutes before exposing the element!

Replace with similar temp dechlorinated water, your Tapsafe is fine, but the soon you can get Prime the better (not only is it more economical, but it also can temporarily "soak" up ammonia and nitrite for upto 24 hours).

Most people can mix hot tap water with cold to get this similar temp water, alternatively you could boil the kettle with some cold (but this can bring its own problems in hard tap water, as it will change the amount of "limescale" minerals in the water).



By and large, ammonia readings get dangerous when they exceed 1mg/l, at this point an emergency ~95% change is advisable . Most ammonia tests are telling you the total ammount of [safe] ammonium and [dangerous] ammonia ions in the water, the balance of these is effected by temperature and pH.

Nitrite, on the other hand, can create issues at much smaller levels because it messes with the fishes' ability to get oxygen into their tissue. An emergency change is advisable whenever 0.25mg/l readings show up.

 

[rachcake]

Unless I have missed them during a read of the post, I cannot see any specific test result readings, so my generalised advice that should not cause any issues is...

Change ~95% of the current water, basically just leaving enough of the old water to cover the fish on the floor. Remember to turn off any heater and let it cool for at least 10 minutes before exposing the element!

Replace with similar temp dechlorinated water, your Tapsafe is fine, but the soon you can get Prime the better (not only is it more economical, but it also can temporarily "soak" up ammonia and nitrite for upto 24 hours).

Most people can mix hot tap water with cold to get this similar temp water, alternatively you could boil the kettle with some cold (but this can bring its own problems in hard tap water, as it will change the amount of "limescale" minerals in the water).



By and large, ammonia readings get dangerous when they exceed 1mg/l, at this point an emergency ~95% change is advisable . Most ammonia tests are telling you the total ammount of [safe] ammonium and [dangerous] ammonia ions in the water, the balance of these is effected by temperature and pH.

Nitrite, on the other hand, can create issues at much smaller levels because it messes with the fishes' ability to get oxygen into their tissue. An emergency change is advisable whenever 0.25mg/l readings show up.

I've just found the piece of paper they've been writing the results on... tuesday 17/7/12 so 2 days ago, ammonia 1.0, nitrite 0.50, and nitrate 2.0... any further advice from that? thank you

 

[onebto]

I would support the advice of the above members recommendations and I am disgusted that the local fish shop told you not to do a water change with an Ammonia reading that is just the worst advice in the world.

As for buying seachem prime I have never found it available in Local fish shops I do not know why? So I buy mine on line, the best price I have found is at charter house aquatics and there delivery is insanely quick of course most on-line fish stores supply it so feel free to browse for a better price if you find one please pass it on.

Good luck you are now in very good hands regards onebto.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Unless I have missed them during a read of the post, I cannot see any specific test result readings, so my generalised advice that should not cause any issues is...

Change ~95% of the current water, basically just leaving enough of the old water to cover the fish on the floor. Remember to turn off any heater and let it cool for at least 10 minutes before exposing the element!

Replace with similar temp dechlorinated water, your Tapsafe is fine, but the soon you can get Prime the better (not only is it more economical, but it also can temporarily "soak" up ammonia and nitrite for upto 24 hours).

Most people can mix hot tap water with cold to get this similar temp water, alternatively you could boil the kettle with some cold (but this can bring its own problems in hard tap water, as it will change the amount of "limescale" minerals in the water).



By and large, ammonia readings get dangerous when they exceed 1mg/l, at this point an emergency ~95% change is advisable . Most ammonia tests are telling you the total ammount of [safe] ammonium and [dangerous] ammonia ions in the water, the balance of these is effected by temperature and pH.

Nitrite, on the other hand, can create issues at much smaller levels because it messes with the fishes' ability to get oxygen into their tissue. An emergency change is advisable whenever 0.25mg/l readings show up.

I've just found the piece of paper they've been writing the results on... tuesday 17/7/12 so 2 days ago, ammonia 1.0, nitrite 0.50, and nitrate 2.0... any further advice from that? thank you

As I wrote earlier, you need to do an "emergency" water change of ~95%, the 0.5mg/l nitrite reading is far more dangerous to the fish than the ammonia is likely to be (unless you have a pH > 8.5 and tropical temperature water).

 

[4seasons]

Welcome to the forum.

My first advice would be, Never take advice from that LFS again! I am assuming it was them who told you you not to do any more water changes, verry bad advice and cruel to the fish.

Ok, so it sounds like you have read through some posts on here which is good there is lots of really good info about fish in cycling.

So if I was you first chance you get buy a test kit, you will need one that can test your PH - Ammonia - nitrite - nitrate
There is alot of different products but I have always used liquid test kits, I would suggest ( API Freshwater Master Test Kit ) will cost no more than £20 and will last a long time. Personally when I cycle a tank I test every day but this is personal preference.

More importantly you need to do a water change right away, at the verry least 50% guessing from what you have said maybe more, then test your water and post the results on here so we can help you more, keep a record of your test results on here and I'm sure there will be someone willing to help you through. what are you using to treat your fresh water before adding it to your tank ?

What filter are you using ?
What temperature is your water set to ?

I completely concur. Especially about the advice your LFS have given you. I have had some bad advice from so-called "fish experts" before, but never anything as dumb as not do a water change when you water is out of whack.

Just a few things to add. First, have you read about fish-in cycling in the beginners resource section? If not start here: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/
Second get a liquid test kit like the API Master Freshwater kit mentioned above a.s.a.p. Then test you water once a day at least for ammonia and nitrite until you tank is cycled. Any time that you get a reading of ammonia or nitrite other than 0ppm you need a 70-90% water change. Any time you do a water change use temperature matched dechloriniated water.

Third, you are using a dechlorinator right? That is the only thing that you should always add to you water. If not, we recommend Seachem Prime because it not only remove chlorine from tap water but also detoxifies ammonia and nitrite for up to 24 hours giving the bio-filtration time to remove it without harming your fish. And it is also very concentrated and cost effective.

Yep I've got 'tapsafe' but will buy seachem prime asap and a water test kit! so will the water change be ok to do with the tapsafe for now, until i get the seachem prime?... do i leave the water to sit with it in until its room temperature, and then do the change? sorry i didn't realise HOW new i was to this until i joined this forum!!

Tapsafe will work just fine for getting chlorine out of you tap water. Use it to do your water changes. Prime is better because it also makes ammonia and nitrite safer for a short time while some other dechlorinators only get the chlorine and chloramine and maybe some heavy metals. Like was said before what is important is doing a large water change as soon as you get any reading other than 0ppm on ammonia or nitrite. Any dechlorinator will work for an emergency large water change.

My process for a water change is:
1. Turn off my heater and filter. I actually pull the suction tube up out of the water on my filter or my filter will siphon water back into the tank leaving no water in the filter (dry media is bad) and then I have to refill the filter and prime it to get it running again. You may not have to do this if your filter is better than the hang on back one that came with my tank.
2. Using my gravel vac I siphon tank water into a clean bucket (one that has never had soap or any harsh chemicals in it.) Depending on how much water you need to remove and how big your bucket is you may need to dump the bucket and repeat several times. Once your fish barely have enough water to swim in stop draining water.
3. I put my bucket under the tap and run both hot and cold water using my hand to test water temperature. The temp doesn't have to be exact a couple of degrees cooler than what you removed will be fine. You just don't want to dump lots of 60 degree water on fish that are swimming in 80 degree water. I also add my dechlorinator in the bucket as I am filling it for the size of the bucket.
4. I slowly pour the water on a large piece of wood in my tank so as not to disturb the substrate. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until tank is full.
5. Turn back on heater and filter making sure that the filter actually starts moving water. Sometimes I have to reprime my filter to get it going again.

 

[rachcake]

update: did an 80% water change on thursday about 3pm... went away for a couple days, got home tonight (saturday) and the molly has died, but 2 platys are still alive and swimming about as usual, don't 'look' poorly or anything.... ordered the api test kit which should be here monday so will test the water asap!

 

[McCool]

update: did an 80% water change on thursday about 3pm... went away for a couple days, got home tonight (saturday) and the molly has died, but 2 platys are still alive and swimming about as usual, don't 'look' poorly or anything.... ordered the api test kit which should be here monday so will test the water asap!

Until you get the test kit, I would do a 60% water change everyday just too be safe, and cut back on your feeding.

 

[asheyna]

I am so sorry to hear that your LFS is so awful. Seriously, wow. The only time you'd leave an Ammonia spike alone is if there were no fish in the tank. This forum is a great resource, and the advice above is great. Just wanted to add my +1 to the suggestion of daily water changes until you get your test kit. Are there any other LFS around for you to check out?

Bottom line is you don't want to rely on the people at the fish store for advice. Most of them just work there, and are there to sell you whatever they can. Sounds like you're taking the right steps to fixing it and educating yourself. I hope the rest of the cycle goes well for the remaining fish!

 

[rachcake]

received everything i'd ordered today (api freshwater test kit and seachem prime) so did the water test this evening (9pm, 50mins ago to be precise) and the results were:
ammonia - 0ppm
nitrite - 5ppm
nitrate - 40 or 80ppm (couldn't really tell much between the 2?)

so any ideas where i go from here?