platy with worms?

[dwarfgourami]

Smudge has been a bit off colour for a few days.
Standing in a corner close to the surface, but not gasping.
Comes to life at mealtimes, still eating, but otherwise doesn't do much.
Fat belly, though she could of course be pregnant again. Not dropsy yet, but of course I am worried.
Has passed normal looking poo but also some very thin almost threadlike transparent stuff, looks like hair. Seems in some discomfort from her stomach. Not flicking against leaves though.
Gave her peas last night and she seemed perkier for a while but is now looking sorry for herself again. I hoped at first she might only be constipated, as they've been fed dry food for a while during the holidays, but the peas only seemed to give temporary relief.
No new fish have been added to this tank for 6 months so if there were parasites she or someone must have been carrying them that long. One platy did die from unknown causes a month ago, so maybe that was parasites, though I put it down to old age at the time.
It's a JuwelRekord60 containing 1 adult platy, 2 female guppies+ 11 small fry (2 guppy, 9 platy). Last water change was on Saturday; I do 20% once a week.

My instinct would be to dose for internal parasites- the problem is that the tank contains an assorted number of small fry and I am worried about injuring them.
Again, if she has worms she may give them to the fry (they presently look in peak condition).
Also thought about salt, but again not sure about the fry.
As for moving her, my other tank contains 4 corys (whom I don't want to give the parasites to) and a bully platy who would make her life miserable. If I moved the fry there instead, Mickey the bully would almost certainly go for them.

What would you do folks?

 

[Annastasia]

Yes, I'd say it sounds like internal parasites.

And you are right, fry are sensitive and I don't think they could handle a full dose. However, I would doubt they have them, because if I am remembering correctly, only when a fish dies do they spread the internal parasites. Perhaps you could try a smaller dose, like maybe 1/2 to 1/4, and then treat for longer? Or how old are the fry? And also, fry should be able to handle salt, though I usually half-dose mine.

If you wanted to treat without fry, and doing full doses, you could try sticking the fry in a couple breeder nets in the other tank. That way they won't get bullied, and if you only put a few per net, they should be fine for a couple weeks or so. That's what I would do, personally, as it seems like the best option because you can treat the full dose, and not risk the fry at all. If you do move them though, loooooong acclimation time is the key. Maybe even the drip method.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Thanks a lot, Annastasia. That's a good thought with the breeder nets. The fry range from 2 weeks up to 1 1/2 month: two batches of Smudge's babies+ two guppies we don't quite know when they were born.

Does anyone know a good anti-parasite medicine sold in the UK?

Yes, I'd say it sounds like internal parasites.

And you are right, fry are sensitive and I don't think they could handle a full dose. However, I would doubt they have them, because if I am remembering correctly, only when a fish dies do they spread the internal parasites. Perhaps you could try a smaller dose, like maybe 1/2 to 1/4, and then treat for longer? Or how old are the fry? And also, fry should be able to handle salt, though I usually half-dose mine.

If you wanted to treat without fry, and doing full doses, you could try sticking the fry in a couple breeder nets in the other tank. That way they won't get bullied, and if you only put a few per net, they should be fine for a couple weeks or so. That's what I would do, personally, as it seems like the best option because you can treat the full dose, and not risk the fry at all. If you do move them though, loooooong acclimation time is the key. Maybe even the drip method.

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[dwarfgourami]

Bother my lfs doesn't do internal parasite medicines; they say they're too strong. Will ring round tomorrow and see if there is anywhere else I can get to. Anything else I should be doing in the meantime? And if the other shops don't do it, is there anything I can do? Smudge is not looking too bad yet, certainly takes an interest in her food and comes alive a little before I actually dish up.
We are particularly fond of her, so really want to do all we can before she gets really bad.

 

[WILDER]

There is only when cure for internal parasites in the uk and it's a pig worming tablet which it very hard to get hold off, i would issolate the suspect fish, as livebearers are very prone to them, they are hard to cure, best o distroy the affected fish and strip the tank down.Sorry.

 

[WILDER]

http/inkmkr.com/Fish/CamallanusTreatment/

 

[dwarfgourami]

Thanks Wilder.
Have looked up Camallanus, and Smudge's symptoms sound nothing like it (no red worms protruding etc). This means I don't know what to do?
It seems hard to euthanise a much-loved fish when I am not sure of the diagnosis and she is not in desperate pain. But then again, what about the others?
Oh dear, fish-keeping is so HARD.

http/inkmkr.com/Fish/CamallanusTreatment/

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[WILDER]

With them worms they don't always have to see the prutruding worms from the anus, signs of parasite infections are, long stringy white poo, inflamed large anus,being skinny or bloated, try some shelled peas abit longer, as bacteria infecions can cause long stringy white poo.

 

[dwarfgourami]

In that case, would treating against bacteria infection do any good?

With them worms they don't always have to see the prutruding worms from the anus, signs of parasite infections are, long stringy white poo, inflamed large anus,being skinny or bloated, try some shelled peas abit longer, as bacteria infecions can cause long stringy white poo.

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[WILDER]

You could try an epson salt bath on her as well, that should help with constipation, and bacteria infections.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Thanks, will do.
I've spoken to the man at the specialist lfs, and he says he's had some success with TetraGeneralTonic. Anyone know it? Supposed to contain antibiotics.
He said he's tried the Interpet bacteria stuff, but never found it did anything. I want to rush out and get it at once, but my daughter is ill, and the shop is 40 minutes bus ride away- oh, do hang on in there Smudge!
Actually, she is not looking too bad, still swimming around and tackled her breakfast (daphnia) with great enthusiasm.

You could try an epson salt bath on her as well, that should help with constipation, and bacteria infections.

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[dwarfgourami]

OK, I've done it now. On the advice of the man in the specialist lfs I have dosed the tank and the fish food with TetraGeneralTonic, which seems to contain Methylene blue and some other ingredients of which I know nothing. He says it is the only medicine he has had some measure of success with.
The fry are still in the tank. I slightly underdosed for their sakes, but felt I had to risk it, as there are signs that the other adults are also carrying worms, and I feel it is only a matter of time until it spreads to them all. I now feel sure this is what my other platy died from, and I have seen worms sticking out which I think is when they are laying eggs, so felt I had no alternative to treating everybody.
I might add some salt later on to help the fish to cope with any stress.
I do hope it will be alright.
Funny, both my children are ill at the moment, my son with some undiagnosed bacterial infection which makes him break out in big blisters - yet I am nowhere near as worried about them. There is something so reassuringly sturdy about 5-year-old boys.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Well, I don't know if this is good or bad, but it could be a sign of the medicine working: both my adult guppies have today passed gross lengths of what I assume is dead worm and are now looking greatly relieved (pun unintended). Smudge is in a corner, looking as if she's desperate to go, too. I am feeding peas!

What I am hoping is that the medicine on the flakes will kill what is inside them and the medicine in the tank will prevent it spreading to the fry. Not much of a hope I know, but it's the best I have.

On the positive side, Smudge is still eating, keeping her balance and not pineconing. This does not seem to be a very fast-killing parasite as it must have come in with the tank 6 months ago.

On the negative side, I have now got 11 fry which I will not be able to pass on to anyone else- and that's if they survive.

 

[WILDER]

Good luck keep us all updated like to no if this method works, but they can come back again as quickly.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Yes, I do realise that. I am hoping (sort of) that the medication may kill any free-swimming larvae or eggs. If not, well we'll just have to see how long the leper colony lasts. At least I am keeping it contained, not buying any more fish and using separate equipment for the two tanks.

Good luck keep us all updated like to no if this method works, but they can come back again as quickly.

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