Plant's Being "stripped" ?

[justjon]

I've had nice live plants ever since I got my bigger tank about 6 months back, the problem is that now i've noticed they are almost being stripped bare with some whole parts coming off and floating at the top of the tank, I noticed my shrimps like sitting on the leaves, but am not sure if it's actually them doing it?

Is there anything I can do? I've never given any plant foods or anything, just normal light whenever i'm home and bubbles going through the tank...

Am I better putting the tank lighting on a timer to come on for 8 hours per day?

 

[Verminator89]

Air bubbles will counter CO2, reducing levels that won't be ideal for plants. Plants require CO2 during daylight hours to photosynthesise and O2 at night.

Lighting period aught to be between 7-10 hours a day to encourage plant growth, any more than this and only algae will benefit. How strong are your lights, what wattage are they and many do you run. Knowing this will make it easier for us to advise what to do.

Naturally in tap water there isnt enough macro + micro nutrients to sustain healthy plant growth. The addition of ferts dosed manually is required for optimum growth in most plants in the modern aquaria, however not all plants demand so much that they can't survive without you adding more. What plants do you keep? If you don't know posting a picture will help us identify what you do have.

And in short, no your shrimps arent likely to be the culprits. Its either going to be a plant nibbling fish and/or less than adequate growing conditions for the plant types you keep.

James

 

[justjon]

Hi there,


High-Lite Light Unit 60 cm, 2 x 24 W is what I have, it's the Juwel Lido 120L Tank, with the default lighting in.

I keep the air bubbles running constantly 24/7, and lights come on very unevenly between 4-10 hours a day (which is why i'm thinking a timer would benefit?).

Are the plants likely to be able to be saved?

What food would you reccomend or solution that I can add to the water?

Here is an old picture of the plants, not too sure on the names but my LFS keeps them in stock, they have rooted pretty well through the gravel.

The big tall plant is the one that's being "stripped"

See my sig for which fish I have.

I was actually thinking of getting fake plants, but I really liked how these ones seem to "glow" atleast when they are well.

 

[Verminator89]

From a quick calculation i've come to the assumption your tank is running on 1.8WGP which is classed low(ish) to low-mid. Which supports my next fact that your plant (can't tell what it is) is suffering from lack of light to its lower leaves and is reaching out toward the light making it appear somewhat 'leggy'. This is very common with stem plants when there is insufficient light, this is why your plant is losing leaves.

In short the plant is salvagable yes. But it depends what lengths your prepared to go to right this wrong. I would advise getting rid of the air bubbles because they don't do plants any good at all, they just aid surface aggitation.

Next i would get your lights on a timer, As there is less light available to them i would perhaps advise somewhere between 8-10 hours a day on a timer. Whether you increase your lights wattage by changing them, or adding another ballast with a bulb will increase the light, in doing so it'll affect the next points i mention from here on.

CO2. If your not willing on going for a full system which is entirely ok if you don't i'd recommend a product such as Seachem Excel. Its liquid CO2 which in your case might help.

In addition to any CO2 you dose your going to need some ferts to aid, i'd recommend Seachem Flourish, or something to similar effect. With these two products (Flourish & Excel) follow the dosage requirements on the back and adjust to how you see fit for your tank.

From the picture i can see you have what appears Hygrophila Corymbosa in the bottom left, i can't confirm that 100% as its so small. Either way it has what appears to be slightly crinkled leaf tips on a few leaves which suggests a deficiency in the nutrients. The crypt on the other hand looks to be doing fine, which is usually the case with Cryptocoryne species

I'm stuck with what stem plant that is, i recognise it but can't put a name to it that i think is right. I have Egeria Densa, Tonina Fluiviatilis and another unknown plant in my head, but not sure which it looks most like. Being an unhealthy specimen i can't tell.

IMPORTANT - I'd sort your lighting out first, as this is the predominant reason for the leggyness and loss of leaves. Adjusting others before this and you'll probably induce algae. So try the lighting first on its own, if things don't improve it'll suggest a shortage of CO2 and ferts, just don't over do them as algae is a pain once it starts.

 

[justjon]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

What do you mean by a "Full on" system.

It's a real shame regarding the air bubbles, I love the effect, could it even go on for 2-3 hours per day?

On the algie front, my 6 shrimps love it and it's in sun for a few hours per day, so sure a little wouldn't hurt

For the lighting, what would you reccomend?

 

[Verminator89]

As to the lighting if you were to add another 24W bulb that would give you 62W of lighting, and over a 26uk gallon tank that would be just over 2WPG which is mid lighting levels. Ideal for most easy plants to grow adequately.

By full on system i mean a high-tech CO2 pressurised injection kit. Which i saw a price for one in my LFS today at £188. You can get basic ones for about £30-40 which is what i use, or you have liquid ferts at roughly £10 per 500ml which can last a few months depending how you use them. Daily prefereably.

I suppose you could use the air stone for a few hours a day, however it would counter any CO2 you put in, making it useless. So you have to decide if you want bubbles, or plant growth. I know what i opted for, i binned my ait stone few years ago when i got more into plants. Work out what you want to achieve and what your willing to put in to sustain it. Its like saying i want Severums in a planted tank - its never going to happen lol.

Yes, algae can be great, IF you can control it and keep it at bay. I currently have 2ft planted tank which i use a basic AquaGrow CO2 system, i dose ferts 3 times a week using Easylife EasyCarbo and Easylife Profito. My lighting is x2 24W T5HO and on my system it gives me 3.5WPG which is high. Its safe to say i battle algae due to my lighting being to bright for what i grow and dose. I have shrimps which keep some of it in check, but i'm scraping the glass weekly and my rocks are dark green. But i like it, so i live with it. Thats just one form of algae though, in my conditions it could so easily be any algae and others are ALOT harder to stave off, or control.

If you want algae then thats fine, but its a very very fine line between controllable algae you want and algae which is destroying your enjoyment of the hobby. So tread carefully is all i'm saying. Shrimp are shrimp, not gods, even they have limits

 

[justjon]

Great, i'll have a look around.

What you said is what I have also, 2x 24W T5's, one is called "Natural" and the other "Daylight" I think, for supporting vitamins etc.

£188 at the moment is way out of my budget, i'd say about £50 or under is more under (at the moment), I may have to scrap the airstone in that case.

 

[Verminator89]

The lighting of x2 24W T5 you have is on 120L so it comes out around 1.8WPG
The lighting of x2 24W T5 i have is on 60L so it comes out around 3.5WPG

In mine i run two PlantPro bulbs i think they are called because mine is a planted tank first and foremost. No fish, only cherry shrimp.

When you increase the WPG and in doing so increase the CO2 and ferts dosed you might find to counter algae you have to add a few more plants. Your plant mass is low currently, getting more might sound counter productive but it'll make it a little easier to not over dose and cause an lagae bloom. As a safe bet go for some more Cryptocoryne species.

As a scaping idea i'd bring the coconut husk forward an inch or two and place a crypt just behind it. Also inbetween the two prominent pieces of wood coming to the front of the tank i'd add a crypt in there. It'll grow and flow up and over the wood a little whilst still showing the wood. Then maybe another one toward the right hand side of the wood.

Egeria Densa or Cabomba may not be the most appealing plants in the world but they soak up excess nutrients fast, so if algae sets in get some of these to help counter it. Also that reminds me, Egeria Densa actually releases a chemical into the water that helps prevent algae in the first place. Fantastic right!?

 

[justjon]

Could you link me to a uk shop who sells crypt plants?

As i'm on an island, stock is very limited, my LFS only tends to keep 3 different types of plants (which happen to be the ones I have!)

I've also been interested in something to cover up the bottom area (the gravel) I love the look of nicely planted green tanks, rather than full gravel, I went for this with the small plant you can see on the very left, but it died off within a month or two.

I see you can also get moss, but no idea how to start with this - can I get this online also?

A link to a reasonably good (perhaps the one you use?) c02 system would also be beneficial

 

[Verminator89]

I shall pm you some interesting stuff, as i don't want to advertise other stuff on the open forum

 

[ian]

do 'NOT' add more light!

your on the upper limits of not having to run pressurised c02, adding more light would be an algae disaster. It not all about the light. Plants grow on any light, if low light, the plant just grows slower. Makes sence doesn't it. If this was my tank, i would start by dosing some ferts (micro), you only have from what i can see, 3 plants. Watch to see if things improve, give it a couple of weeks.

I will re-itterate though, do not add more light.

 

[pauld]

do 'NOT' add more light!

your on the upper limits of not having to run pressurised c02, adding more light would be an algae disaster. It not all about the light. Plants grow on any light, if low light, the plant just grows slower. Makes sence doesn't it. If this was my tank, i would start by dosing some ferts (micro), you only have from what i can see, 3 plants. Watch to see if things improve, give it a couple of weeks.

I will re-itterate though, do not add more light.

tottaly agree with the above and you cant over dose micros if your not really a plant person i wouldnt bother with co2 , if you want to get into plants do your research first eg you will need 10x plus flow rate and even distribuation of co2 and nutrients look at your budget i would say the plants in your tank are worthe less then a tenner a cheap co2 system with atomiser bubble counter and drop checker, you wont get a lot of change out of £100.

 

[justjon]

Thanks guys, can you PM me a link to a recommended bottle of what I need? I'm popping to the LFS tomorrow so can see if they have in stock aswell.