Plant Eaters - Begone!

[sothoth]

I'm a planted tank newbie, but have kept tropical fresh and salt fish/inverts for about 30 years. I usually keep cichlids, so I never had a chance to keep healthy plants. We'll, I'm trying right now, and I think I'm about 90% of the way there, but the 10% that's keeping me from having the tank that I want is proving sticky.

I have two amazon swords. The leaves grow in great abundance and have great color at first. They get about 2" long, then they end up getting picked on by something, then almost totally devoured.

I'd really like to test whether or not my CO2 and fertilizer regimen is working OK, but since the leaves are getting munched, I'm not sure I know whether or not everything else is OK or not.

Comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

More details about my setup:
- 30 gal, ~2WPG, 1 bulb is a 9325K (GE) and the other is a 6700K (heavy on reds) (30W each)
- I have a red sea CO2 system. I don't test the CO2 levels
- I have about 7 tetras, 5 clown loaches, 6-7 algae eaters (otos), a pearl gourami, a bala shark, 2 kribensis, 2 angels
- Filtration: 1 marineland biowheel, one fluval 105 canister, one fluval 205 canister (yes, I know that's weird)
- I watch this tank constantly and never see anyone eating the plants, but they're getting eaten anyway

The holes in the leaves are about 1/8" in diam. Those start first. Then the leaves get thinner and thinner and pretty much die off. I get lush new leaves frequently (so I think everything else is OK but I'm not positive) and then they get eaten, too.

I also get a bit of brown algae, but the otos seem to keep that largely under control.

Several people have pointed the finger at my angels and kribs, but I don't see them munching. I have a few snails (guessing they're Melanoides), but I'm hoping the loaches keep those under control, which they appear to since I don't see them during the day and there are very few at night when they should be most active. I'm guessing the cichlids could make the larger holes but I don't think they're doing all the muching that thins out the leaves so badly.

Thoughts?

 

[EliteFishy]

I think it might be the kribs and maybe the loaches. You tank is overstocked. The bala sharks and loaches get too big for a 30 gallon.

 

[sothoth]

I think it might be the kribs and maybe the loaches. You tank is overstocked. The bala sharks and loaches get too big for a 30 gallon.

Do you recommend a different type of loach for controlling snails?

 

[EliteFishy]

I think a yoyo loach is better or you can have only 1 or 2 clown loaches.

 

[jayjay]

Clown loaches are shoaling fish, meaning 5+, growing to a large size of 12".

Do you have a full stocking list?

 

[sothoth]

Clown loaches are shoaling fish, meaning 5+, growing to a large size of 12".

Do you have a full stocking list?

Yes, see above...

My typical strategy with clowns is to get them very young and sell them back when they get to ~3 inches. I like having several (4+) since they seem to appreciate the company.

But... I'm not at all opposed to trying the Yoyos and selling the clowns back if they're the plant eating culprits.

 

[Neal]

Yoyos can live in your tank all the time though, but watch them with the kribs if the kribs pair up, as they will become aggressive to other bottom dwellers. Also, the bala shark is a shoaling fish so that needs to have a decent sized school (6+), and they grow over 12" (i'm not sure exactly how big). You need to rehome these fish, and it's probably the angels nipping your plants, but this won't be a noticeable attempt though, as they don't do it much.

Neal

 

[jayjay]

Bala's grow 14", need shoals of 6+ and as adult need an 8'x3' tank IMO. It maybe the bala eating your plants aswel.

 

[sothoth]

Bala's grow 14", need shoals of 6+ and as adult need an 8'x3' tank IMO. It maybe the bala eating your plants aswel.

Yeah, I move them out when they get big, just like with the clowns, but in light of not being sure who is munching on my plants, I'll move the kribs, the angels (I know they nip when they get ready to breed, and these are about the right age for that), the bala, and the clowns. I'll get a yoyo.

Would 30 gal be OK with just one Yoyo or would more work?

Thanks!

 

[Liam]

Angels will pick at plants but I have never seen them actually pick a hole in one. Kribs I don’t know much about with plants, but I don’t remember them eating plants. I haven’t noticed clown loaches eating plants either, they do eat veg, but I never noticed any plant damage when I had them. Some of them were over eight inches, they would gulp cucumber, courgette etc, but they never touched the plants. I haven’t kept bala sharks but none of the other fish are plant eaters in my experience.

If you haven’t seen any fish eating them, it is possible that it is a nutrient deficiency, that can cause the holes. Even if there were bites taken out of the leaves they wouldn’t die off quickly and usually plant eaters prefer to eat fresh new growth as its generally more palatable. Swords feed heavily from the roots, what are they growing in? if its just gravel they may just not have enough food at the roots.

Am far from 100 percent on any of that, but with the fish you have it seems unlikely they are getting eaten.

 

[sothoth]

Angels will pick at plants but I have never seen them actually pick a hole in one. Kribs I don’t know much about with plants, but I don’t remember them eating plants. I haven’t noticed clown loaches eating plants either, they do eat veg, but I never noticed any plant damage when I had them. Some of them were over eight inches, they would gulp cucumber, courgette etc, but they never touched the plants. I haven’t kept bala sharks but none of the other fish are plant eaters in my experience.

If you haven’t seen any fish eating them, it is possible that it is a nutrient deficiency, that can cause the holes. Even if there were bites taken out of the leaves they wouldn’t die off quickly and usually plant eaters prefer to eat fresh new growth as its generally more palatable. Swords feed heavily from the roots, what are they growing in? if its just gravel they may just not have enough food at the roots.

Am far from 100 percent on any of that, but with the fish you have it seems unlikely they are getting eaten.

A nutrient problem is certainly possible. I have literally stared at my fish for an hour or two at a time in the morning, in the middle of the night with an LED, and during the day, and never seen even the smallest nip.

I'll describe the holes a little better, and pardon any similarities to the 2000 presidential election

Basically the holes look like a voting ballot with a chad partially punched out. The hole is pretty much round but the chad part is still hanging on by a thread.

I think I need to try a few things to see what works, so all the suggestions are greatly appreciated.

What about the otos? Could the tank have too much brown algae (does that taste worse?) so they're forced to eat leaves? I hear java ferns taste like sh&% to fish and don't need strong light, maybe I should add a few of those.

 

[Themuleous]

My ottos munched my plants, do not try and tell me that ottos don't eat plants, they do. Wouldn't think it was the clowns, angles, kribs or tetras, but could be the gourami's? Never keep pearls before so cant be sure. Given that species list I would point my finger squarely at the ottos.

Sam

 

[lljdma06]

My ottos munched my plants, do not try and tell me that ottos don't eat plants, they do. Wouldn't think it was the clowns, angles, kribs or tetras, but could be the gourami's? Never keep pearls before so cant be sure. Given that species list I would point my finger squarely at the ottos.

Sam

My otos munch on plants too, but only on diseased leaves. If your swordplants' leaves were already damaged due to a vitamin deficiency, the otos may be just finishing the job. They absolutely love dying vegetable matter. I haven't really seen a dead leaf in my tank since I got them. Gouramis also consume plant matter, and I know three-spots, moonlight, and kissing gouramis are known to eat plants, but I'm not sure about pearls. I've kept honey gouramis with plants and have had no trouble. I've also kept kribs and angels with plants and have never experienced trouble either.

What is your fertilisation method for your plants? Though Sword plants are pretty easy to grow, they do require fertiliser and adaquate light. A lack of these components can cause the decomposition you are describing and the otos could just be finishing the job.

 

[sothoth]

Update: I pulled out the Kribs and the Clowns. I don't see any signs of plant eating anymore. So... I'm guessing it was the Clowns but I'm not sure, and at this point I'm not investigating further because I'm satisfied just that the eating has stopped. Anyway, the only bad side effect is that the snails are going ape now. I'll get a yoyo loach, prefferably a very hungry one.

Thanks for all the suggestions!!