Planning New Tank Do I Go With Dirt Again?

[crago1990]

I started a post in the tropical discussion not long ago and ive decided that at the end of the month im going to upgrade my tank to a roma 200. In my tank at the mo i have John Innes(cant remember what number.. maybe number 3isit?) dirt capped with gravel. Didnt have much luck with plants, mainly down to my lighting i think. The lighting in the roma 200 im sure will be fine for a low tech set up. not using co2 but i am using ferts. does anyone believe that the dirt really does help the plant growth? or shall i just stick to using gravel and ferts. also my queston with ferts is i use seachem flourish excel and TNClite. The TNClite does say for use in lightly planted tanks and when i get the roma 200 i want it to be very planted. So should i be using some other ferts?

Also ive seen a bit about people using cat litter. sounds strange, i dont like the sound of it. but isit even better then using dirt? should i be considering it?

 

[KkAaNnEe]

I dont have dirt but I have watched youtube vids of it - dustinsfishtanks. Seems like its good for a certain amount of time but seems to run out of nutrients. It also seems like its a bit of a balancing act

it really depends on what plants you want to keep, to whether you should fertilise etc i have a low tech and just have regular old play sand with root tabs, fine for me, depends what you want, you can still have a heavily planted tank with low tech

 

[SO19Firearms]

also my queston with ferts is i use seachem flourish excel and TNClite. The TNClite does say for use in lightly planted tanks and when i get the roma 200 i want it to be very planted. So should i be using some other ferts?

If you're dosing Excel you're really in Hi-Tec territory so should be using a Complete fert with NPK in it. The 'lightly planted' in TNC Lite is really refering to the live stock being able to supply the Nitrate and fish food the Phosphate - But this is cancelled out when dosing Carbon really...

HTH

As for the dirt idea, I think you'd have to revise the Waldstad(?) method and go all in with it - Its not something I know about.
I'd take an inert substrate or clay and supplement. IMO

 

[crago1990]

in my current tank when i used gravel my plants didnt do very good atall. they would stay alive for a while then just die off and never get any new growth. Then i added dirt to the tank and started to use flourish excel and my plants stay alive now and have new growth. My crypts are doing pretty good they have lots of new growth but the leaves are green i thought they go a purple brownish colour and plants like my vallis grow new shoots but they dont grow very tall which im guessing is due to lighting? my anubais doesnt grow whats so ever its just the same as i got it (had it for maybe 4 motnhs now) also my java fern doesnt really grow either and from everything ive read there not plants that need really good lighting so im not sure why there not growing?

and on the ferts what should i be using then? because i thought to keep low tech it meant to use liquid ferts and no co2? my plants have been doing better with the flourish excel in there. and with the better lighting of the roma 200 i was thinking i would get some better results with the plants? should i do something completley different in the new tank? glad im planning this now before i get the tank at the end of the month lol.

 

[SO19Firearms]

You're not adding CO2 but you are adding excel - The plants make their own CO2 out of it - So you're high tech.

The difference between dirt and plain gravel is the nutrient (NPK etc) in the dirt. to obtain a similar effect you could add osmocote or root plugs into your gravel or dose the water column with NPK. There's no magic in soil (well, maybe bacteria and stuff that do some pretty cool things, but still...)

 

[crago1990]

i did use root plugs once, i put it under and around my amazon sword and didnt make a difference. it just died off and came bk with 2 leaves which was tiny and never grew anymore so i chucked it away. would love an amazon sword in my new tank! so this npk can i get if off ebay? is it pretty cheap? what one would you reconmend getting? cheers for the help btw

 

[SO19Firearms]

i did use root plugs once, i put it under and around my amazon sword and didnt make a difference. it just died off and came bk with 2 leaves which was tiny and never grew anymore so i chucked it away. would love an amazon sword in my new tank! so this npk can i get if off ebay? is it pretty cheap? what one would you reconmend getting? cheers for the help btw

TPN+, TMC Nutrafeed (I think), TNC Complete, AE Nourish with Nourish+ and The Easylife range.

Provided the root plugs you used were proper, full NPK ones and not clay balls or whatever crap the big names sell the sword problem may have been melting to get adapted to your water or some other issue....

 

[crago1990]

maybe something like this i should be using instead of the flourish excel?

http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TNC-Complete-Aquarium-plant-food-Aquatic-fertiliser-/250789268300?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&var=&hash=item8010261f7a

or maybe this?
http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ae-design-aqua-nourish-250ml-p-3947.html

and from the same shop on ebay these were the root plugs i actually used..

http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TNC-Plugs-Aquarium-Plant-Food-Substrate-Fertiliser-Root-Tablets-/260888226044?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&var=&hash=item82666b6177

 

[SO19Firearms]

Those root plugs are full NPK, so I'd say the Sword melting was it re-adjusting or maybe a CO2 issue (which are essentially the same thing)


As for using something instead of Excel I think you have your wires crossed* - Excel isn't a plant food it's liquid carbon - A CO2 alternative.

So, if you carry on using Excel, you will need to also add TNC Complete or AE Nourish and AE Nourish+

If your light is low enough to warrant you not needing to use the Excel you could carry on using the TNC lite or AE Nourish
If you found you still had deficiency you could move up to TNC Complete or AE Nourish and AE Nourish+

I think that covers everything





*or me

 

[crago1990]

i think i understand now lol...

so if i want to use flourish excel i will need to use TNC complete aswell.

but if i stop using flourish i could use TNC lite or TNC complete.

i think maybe the best route is plant the 200 and add the fish, after the plants have melted see if they start producing new growth and if not and they show signs of deficiency then add TNClite and then if theres still problems go with flourish excel and TNC complete.

hope ive got that right now?

 

[SO19Firearms]

Nearly!
Always fertilise from the start with whatever you're doing. It's not a given that plants will melt, but they're sure to if there's no food about. And if you think your stocking levels won't provide enough Nitrates, Phosphates etc go straight in with Complete or Nourish & Nourish+ etc.

Nutrients don't cause algae, so there's no reason to fear them - Only the experts can afford to dial dosing back and use less etc

 

[crago1990]

think im going to get some TNC complete then. seeings with a much bigger tank my stocking wont provide enough till i get some more fish. cheers for clearing that up.

back to the dirt is it best just to leave it out and go with the gravel and use root plugs every 6 months or so? or isit better i read up on that waldstad method? it did seem to make a difference when i put it in there and the main thing i like it makes it look natural imo. mud at the bottom coverd with gravel and some plants on top.

also noone has said anything on the cat litter? take it its best to forgett about that then.

 

[SO19Firearms]

Research the Waldtad method before buying anything, I don't think you have to fertilise with that (I might be wrong) - But treat that as a method in itself, I wouldn't try mixing it with other methods. It will end in algae coloured tears.

If you go for gravel or cat litter then normal fertiliser techniques apply. The difference between gravel and cat litter is the litter absorbs nutrients over time, keeping them in reserve for the lean times. The gravel gives no help.

I'll really mess you up now and say have a read of THIS - That works on a similar line to cat litter....

HTH

 

[crago1990]

hmm sounds interesting. will have to have a proper read of that later as ive got to go to work now cheers for all ur help anyway..