Planaria

[pippoodle]

i got some Planaria in my shrimp tank i know they are harmlessbut i dont like them lol
i know i got it cos i was feeding the shrimp and so was hubby before he went to work in the morning - but neither of us knew til the Planaria showed up and i said well i only feed them a little bit and he said so do i lol.
It's a bit hard to clean the gravel really well at the moment cos i have so many tiny shrimplets in there.
They are moving to another tank in a few days as are the plants

my main question is
Is there an easy way to get rid of them without harming the shrimp and can it transfer on the plants to the new tank - have to keep the plants as i got scuds living in the pots and dont want to lose them

 

[pippoodle]

bump

 

[Syphoniera]

bump

Don't know if this helps, but copied some info I'd added to another post not long ago.

What I and others refer to as planaria are typically small, white, worm-like creatures, rather than the dark-coloured ones described below, but I believe the rest of this still applies.


http/en.allexperts.com/q/Fish-1472/planaria.htm

'... Planaria are a free-living flatworm found in almost every kind of environment, on land and in fresh and salt water. They are a very small black or brown flatworm that look very similar to leeches and often appear in freshwater aquariums. They are generally around 3 to 5 mm long, but some grow as large as 10 mm. In a normal aquarium situation they usually don't cause any problems and probably even go unnoticed. However, if you get them in a breeding aquarium, they can destroy a whole spawning of eggs within hours. They are usually seen crawling around on the front of the aquarium after the lights have been turned off. They feed on anything organic but can also infect the mucous membranes of the fish's gills. They feed by sucking food into their gastrovascular cavity through a tube called the pharynx located on the mid-ventral surface.

'Planaria originated in Indonesia.
'You can get rid of planaria by treating the tank with Flubendazole 5 percent. Never squash or in any way dissect them, as each piece will become a new worm. ...'

Unfortunately, flubendazole is toxic to shrimp, but (with reference to hydra, planaria not specified)

http/www.planetinverts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6316

'... I have found that a very small dose of Flubendazole can suppress Hydra blooms without killing the shrimp but it is a delicate balance. I would use only about 1/8 tsp/10 gal as the maximum dose if shrimp are present of the 5% flubendazole powder. ...'


Had some trouble (&%$#@*! puter) getting to an article giving very detailed experience of experimental use, so went to cached:

http/72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:wSP_cg...t=clnk&cd=4

Fish Fanatic's Blog - 'Planaria and Hydra Elimination in Shrimp Tanks
Published by fshfanatic September 15th, 2008 in Brackish Fish. .

'... All of my tanks had planaria in them and I had been assured by some local hobbyists that planaria were harmless to shrimp. I have since found this article: TheTrouble with Planaria, and have come to the conclusion that the planaria were indeed detrimental to my shrimp population. ...'

'... Fenbendazole is most easily found as a dog de-wormer and can be purchased at most pet supply stores. I used the “Safe Guard” brand labeled for dogs. Panacur is another brand name product that can be used. The price was about $14 for four 1 gram packs. This was the smallest size available at my local fish shop. Online information is “sketchy” at best for using this medication in aquariums. Some people describe using a “pinch” of the powder for their tanks or using a “BB” sized measuring spoon for their tanks. Most accounts do not give the volume of their tanks so figuring out a dosage from their information is next to impossible. The best information I could find suggested using a 2ppm dosage to de-worm fish. I was worried about the effects on shrimp with this dosage so I calculated a much smaller dosage for my shrimp tanks. According to the package, one gram of the powder contains 222mg of fenbendazole. Therefore, 0.1gm would contain 22.2mg and this would be about 0.6ppm (can someone please double check my math) dose for my 10 gallon tanks. ...'

'... Since shrimp can be very susceptible to most medications, shrimp only tanks can be can be very difficult to rid of pests. A 0.6 ppm dose of fenbendazole seems to be highly effective against both planaria and hydra in shrimp tanks and does not harm shrimp, snails, or other fauna, at this dosage. Four months have passed since first dosing fenbendazole in my shrimp tanks and the planaria and hydra are still absent from the tank. Every species of shrimp has bred successfully for me to this point, even the Amano Shrimp. However, I have been unsuccessful thus far in raising the Amano larvae. A smaller dose of fenbendazole may be effective against planaria and hydra but I have not experimented with it yet.

'Note: Measuring 0.1 gm of fenbendazole is difficult for most hobbyists. Since it is very insoluble in water, I have suggested to fellow hobbyists that they simply divide one 1 gram packet into ten equal parts and add one of these parts for each 10 gallons of water. So far, everyone has had success using this method. If measuring a 0.1 gram dose is not possible, a water change after 48-72 hours would probably be a good idea. ...'

Thanks to the brilliance of the above people, and to those producing/maintaining the Internet, it's just a question of finding the appropriate stuff and applying it correctly.

 

[pippoodle]

Thanks for the information i'm just not sure wether i would want to risk using that .
I wonder if there's another way
there isn't lots of them but there's enough to see clearly

 

[Mr Bliss]

Borrow some guppies to snack on the planaria?

I've been told that Ghost shrimp will eat planaria, but they'd probably also terrorize your other shrimp, as they're bigger and rowdier.

I'd avoid trying to use any chemicals to kill them. Planaria are highly adaptable, and flourish in waters that are too polluted for most other inverts. In the worst case you'd just create a more resistant strain of planaria at the expense of your shrimp.

 

[WILDER]

Good old vac.
Take all the ornaments out and hoover.

 

[Syphoniera]

Borrow some guppies to snack on the planaria?

I've been told that Ghost shrimp will eat planaria, but they'd probably also terrorize your other shrimp, as they're bigger and rowdier.

I'd avoid trying to use any chemicals to kill them. Planaria are highly adaptable, and flourish in waters that are too polluted for most other inverts. In the worst case you'd just create a more resistant strain of planaria at the expense of your shrimp.

Lord knows I'm frequently mistaken, but I was informed that planaria were toxic to shrimp...
And my guppies don't seem to eat them either.

I had a bunch come in with a plant order and infest all tanks where these were added.
(And I both bleach-dipped and quarantined, though evidently not long enough...)
In one tank, where they'd previously died down to invisible levels quite rapidly without taking any action, I recently failed to notice a largish plant in the back melting.
I did think I'd caught the worst of it in time, but I assume that's why a horde of tiny itty-bitty planaria later appeared on the glass in that tank.
That would be over the past few days - right now.

I was wondering about rigging some kind of a trap for them, or even if one could simply do the snail-collecting method of setting out veg and removing it once the critters crawl on.
Only then (mind like a steel trap - very, very dense and no mental control) I realized that I put out veg regularly in that tank anyway and have never noticed planaria going for that...

You are certainly right that chemicals should be avoided, and I know I was just thinking that anything that did eat planaria would be worth a ruddy fortune.
But, come to think of it, I still see few to none in either tank having minnows - so I wonder if her minnows might save the day yet?
And, if so, bring her in a few extra bucks on short-term rentals, lol.

 

[Mr Bliss]

Yeah planaria secrete a toxic mucus when disturbed, so some small inverts avoid eating them (otherwise I'd imagine pippoodle's shrimp would already be all over them). I'd assume that if ghost shrimp actually do eat them, they're resistant to the toxin.

I suggested guppies because I've personally witnessed them eating planaria, but there's of course only so much a few little guppies can do, and if any bits of the worm survive, they'll grow into complete new planaria, so in theory this might actually be counterproductive.

 

[pippoodle]

right i'm emptying that tank
taking the plants apart to see if the scuds are living in there if they are then i'll rescure the scuds
throwing the plants and gravel away
washing the java moss ( i need that )
boiling the bogwood and ornament and just transfering the shrimp only

hopefully nothing will transfer over but if it does i can always put the minnows or guppies in the shrimp tank in the front room thats next to the fish tank to eat any that comes up

do you think that will work ?

 

[Syphoniera]

You could try it - but do rinse any filter media well - they could be in there as well.
And you may also get a new batch in on your next plants.


Just Googled again with different search terms.
(Sorry, seem to have no memory these days, sometimes just niggling little fragments but often triggering enough to look in the right area, anyway...
I always provide quotes from the articles as I know sometimes the 'puter I use won't follow links, or takes soooo long, and others may also have such problems.
I'll leave this as written, speculations and all, so you can draw your own conclusions.)

http/au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...07083119AAFFjaQ

... FLATWORMS
To rid your aquarium of pesky flatworms, try removing all your fish and placing them in a temporary holding tank. Then, increase the water temperature above 95°F for several hours. If this doesn't kill the flatworms, try a water treatment that specifically targets parasites, such as CopperSafe, Clout, or Fluke Tabs. ...

I wonder if the fish/shrimp removal and temp increase would do it?
(I might try that myself in my shrimp tank, on these odd, thread-hanging planaria-like creatures I received absolutely free! with the duckweed.)
Bit of a shock for fish/shrimp, being transferred twice in a day or so, (depending on how long your tank takes to cool down) but probably better than worrying about critters getting into fish gills or attacking the eggs of berried shrimp???

It would at least - assuming it worked - save your plants, which shouldn't cook in that time???
Cabomba might disintegrate...???

(I wonder if small pest-type snails would survive that, as I'd never get them all out of mine if I tried it, and could be looking at ammonia soup shortly...)

But I never seem to see any of the worms in the gravel, or even on the slate/flat rocks I have in most tanks and feed on or over - of course they're only highly visible when on the glass...
Are yours like that?



And I've just come across something fascinating which would explain an awful lot.
This may be of general interest...

http/www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/...es-in-fish.html

... Detritus Worms (from the group of worms called Oligochaetes, sub group naidid worms) are often misidentified in the aquarium hobby as Planaria without close inspection by many internet articles such as about.com.
Many of these worms are accidentally introduced by live plants, gravel (especially in the case of common Detritus Worms) live fish foods, and even brought in with fish transfers.
(Click picture to enlarge)
Many not familiar with Detritus worms will label these as everything form midge larvae, Planaria to baby earthworms, of which none is true. They are very common and most often seen during vacuuming and other cleaning procedures.
These worms generally are not a problem, however high numbers of particular species can indicate low oxygen levels and low filter productivity, which very often suggests some degree of pollution caused by poor cleaning procedures, over crowding, over feeding and poor filtration
Please reference these sources for even more identification (and further information so as to dispel the internet aquarium myth that these are Planaria):
Planaria
Aquatic Life: Worms ,
Oligochaeta Worms
Aquatic Worms ...

Plus there's more info below that, if you care to check out the article.

The 'Planaria' site was down when I checked, but the next given:

http/www.townoflakelure.com/aquatic_worms.htm

... Another group of oligochaetes are the naidid worms. These are common both in running and standing water. Like tubifex worms, most are sediment dwellers, but some are found among aquatic plants. Naidids feed on detritus, algae, plants, planktonic creatures, and some are snail parasites. While not always an indicator of poor water quality, high numbers of particular species can indicate low oxygen levels and low productivity, which very often suggests some degree of pollution. ...

Note: the types of such critters we get typically seem to come in on plants.
The ones I have now always appear to be feeding on algae or invisible critters on the glass...
Ones that came in on some new plants perhaps a couple of years ago rapidly virtually destroyed the lot, and I wasn't rid of those until I actually ditched, rather than bleach-dipping, the remaining shreds of all plants after a second literal sterilization of the tank.
We might very well get different types every time they slip in, as seems to have occurred with me.


And for anyone finding such things as these described below in their tanks, as some have, and been concerned:
http/ebiomedia.com/prod/BOanelids.html

... and Tubifex, often found in clumps with heads buried in the muck, tails waving above. ...

... With well over 13,000 living species, the Phylum Annelida is a highly successful line of invertebrate life dating back over 540 million years. Their elongate, segmented body plan and other body features have allowed annelids to specialize at burrowing through substrates, and to radiate into other ecological niches. ...

... Hermaphroditic mating is the rule in oligochaetes such as earthworms. ...

(So people can quite panicking that the presence of critters must have been 'caused' by what they realize to be non-existent 'filth and neglect' of their tanks, or being perplexed as to how they propagate in what should be a clean tank.
Like algae/cyanobacteria, they're simply highly successful at filling whatever environmental niche exists...)



And from another link given:
http/lakes.chebucto.org/ZOOBENTH/BENTHOS/xxv.html

... Aquatic worms can be distinguished by:

Body colour may be red, tan, brown or black.
Cylindrical, thin (some are very thin), segmented body may be upto 5 inches.
May have short bristles or hairs (setae) that help with movement (usually not visible).
Moves by stretching and pulling its body along in a worm-like fashion. ...


(My comment - again, white not mentioned.)

... The classical "pollution indicators" are Tubifex tubifex and Limnodrilus hoffmeisteri. Both species are able to survive periods of anoxia, such as occurs in the hypolimnia of eutrophic lakes during the summer and winter months. Most tubificids have erythrocruorin, a red blood pigment, that effectively extracts oxygen dissolved in the water. The densities of T. tubifex and L. hoffmeisteri in sewage lagoons may be so high that the bottom appears pink.

Though, not all tubificids are pollution indicators. Some species, such as Tubifex kessleri and Peloscolex variegatum, require well oxygenated waters and reach their greatest densities in oligotrophic lakes. ...

Note the inaccuracy of the generalization that such worms occur only in conjunction with pollution - and apply this more widely, to those varying types found in aquaria as well.
Just because such worms are able to tolerate high levels of pollution doesn't necessarily mean that they require them to survive.
More, perhaps, that competition reduces/disappears...

For those confused by any such creatures increasing in tanks which are carefully cleaned and fed, if they're not eating our plants, and are typically visible on the glass, we may comfort ourselves with the thought that they may be eating our algae.


and to return to; http/www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/...es-in-fish.html

(What we likely most commonly get: although my fish and shrimp don't seem interested at the times I'm watching, it's such a relief to think these may not be toxic after all)

Whiteworms

... These are worms commonly used in feeding for larger fish; for instance, Gouramis and Cory cats love Whiteworms. Microworms (which are Nematodes not Annelids as are Whiteworms) are used for fry.
What we typically refer to as a "white worm" in the aquarium hobby is a segmented round worms (Annelids) that are closely related to the earthworm from the family enchytraeids. Whiteworms are an excellent food source for many amphibians and other aquatic creatures.
These worms can reach over 1 cm or more long. They are NOT a parasite danger to fish or other inhabitants of aquariums and are often seen wiggling up the sides or even at the surface. Whiteworms are basically a worm of de-composition and can multiply rapidly when over feeding is a problem. At this point the biggest danger is oxygen depletion from over population of these worms and a good vacuuming is in order. Many a customer has called or written me about these worms worrying that they have a parasite problem when in reality these worms are good for composting and are at worst an indicator of too much decomposing food and other organic debris. ...

( I had this sudden outbreak only right after a plant melt - although why the heck the guppy/shrimp in that tank isn't porking out on them, if they are these...???
They're barely beyond specks still and very bite-sized for the little guys.
Unless he's already stuffed every time I'm looking - he's only one very small guppy after all...
And perhaps that's what the pygmy cats are feeding on sometimes when they snuffle around on the plants and glass; they haven't been so actively searching out food lately.
I can hope...)
(The next item in the article - )

... Grindal worms
A smaller version of White Worms are the popular Grindal Worms (which are also Annelids) often cultured as fish food (and named for a Swedish Aquarist). ...


We may be freaking out over a valuable source of live food for our fish...


However, the Whiteworms referred to in the link (below) provided in the article are there stated to survive several days in water, rather than living in it.
http/www.livefoodcultures.com/whiteworms_printversion.html


As quoted earlier, '... well over 13,000 living species...' leaves a lot of wiggle room for worm ID's.


In any event, from: http/www.centralpets.com/php/search/stor...y.php?Story=516


... PLANARIA
I also have experienced a planaria worm infestation in my last 10 gallon. This problem was alleviated naturally (thanks to the advice of Mr. Bob Dixon) by the addition of two small Corydoras paleatus, as well as a good couple of water changes and vacuuming. It seems corydoras catfish love any kind of worm. Loaches are, likewise, eager worm eaters. I believe the worms came in with some soil that I'd dug out of my back yard. Next time I think I'll bake any soil I use first. Hindsight is 20/20 though. ...

So your Cory cats may well do the job over time - and what a great excuse to have them in every suitable tank!

Of course, we were just told that...

Pretty much come full circle, I suppose only the name has - and related factors such as potential toxicity have - changed...

But it's interesting...

 

[pippoodle]

So i read all that and still noone really knows a sure fire way of getting rid of them without chemicals at least they shouldn't harm the shrimp ( as far as we know lol)

i put 8 of my apple snails in the shrimp tank last night (even though i never wanted the snails and shrimps to mix again) and where there was a lot in one corner of the glass there is now not many .
just some big ones they have to be about 4-6 mm now
getting the shrimp out later and chucking the plants then boiling the gravel and stuff and going to leave the tank a while bofore i set it up again and start if cycling for any spare inhabitants i get lol
hopefully they will not transfer over to the new tank but alas i think they might with scooping up the shrimp in the net some might transfer in the net - be easy if i could rinse the shrimp in hot water lol
going to try and do a video of them (gonna get hubby to get the proper didgial camcorder out) and see wether i can show what they are to definately identify them .