Ph?

[Nexusred]

My tap water measures ph 7.8 in the high range. When I first did a two week fishless cycle I used ph down. I used 40ml over 4 days and managed to get the level to 7.6 in the standard range however now I have fish in I do not want to use chemicals. Ideally I would like to get it to around 7.0ph so I can keep killifish. Yesterday I experimented with a mix of tap and RO water and found if I use a 50/50 mix I can keep a stable 7.6 ph.

I have a 94l aquarium with JBL aqua basis plus and JBL manado substrate. A number of plants a piece of bog wood and three rocks. Stock is 2 Amo shrimp, 2 crystal shrimp, 1 albino bristlenose plec, 13 green neons, 3 cherry barb, 2 guppies and a black molly. I would like to add 2 killifish and 2 dwarf gourami.

If I gradually brought the ph down over a period of months by increasing the RO mix would it be detrimental to the fish I already have? Or am I going about this the wrong way completely?

 

[mishmash]

I dont think you need to reduce the pH over a matter of months, but also certainly not overnight. I would have thought a week or two would be acceptable if you did it by small daily water changes. Bear in mind the hardness of your tap water too though as I used the chemicals that you used only to find my water in my old house was so hard it bounced right back up every time. You could add some peat to your filter. What tank have u got ? Is it one with an integrated filter chamber at the rear ? The black molly in particular is not very compatible with what you are trying to achieve as they tend to be from brackish waters with higher pH and hardness, and of the mollies the black molly is the most delicate. Having said that, fish are pretty adaptable on the whole. My personal preference is to keep fish in the type of parameters they can really enjoy and shine in though

 

[shoulders]

if your fish are all doing fine i would not bother about getting your ph down constant fluctuations in ph level will stress your fish

 

[thegabzzz]

+1 my ph is 7.8 also, it does not affect the fish. Just as long as when you buy new fish you should slowly acclimate them to the new water, I personally use the drip method

 

[Bignose]

I dont think you need to reduce the pH over a matter of months, but also certainly not overnight.

The significant and danger of 'pH shock' has been greatly overstated, in my experience and opinion. The notion of having to adjust it over 2 weeks (from the portion of your post that I cut out) ignores what a large number of fish in the wild experience every day. Specifically, a body of water like a lake or pond with vegetation can change 1 to even 2 full pH units throughout a day: the sun comes up and starts to warm the water (pH is temperature sensitive), the sun being out means that the plants start photosynthesizing -- changing the chemical makeup of the water. But, an even better example is anytime there is a sudden thunderstorm, bodies of water can swell to double, triple or more their original size. The rain runoff is rarely the same pH as the original body of water. In short, dramatic changes in pH are common in the wild, and fish have adapted mechanisms to deal with them.

In fact, a healthy fish with the correct available resources can change their internal bodily fluids' pH a full 4 units in an hour in response to external changes.

Now, 'correct available resources' mean that changes in the minerals and ions in the water are okay. In short, a lot of what has been ascribed to 'pH shock' is really, in my opinion, a 'hardness shock'. If there is a large change in pH and hardness, it the change in hardness that is actually stressful for the fish, because they can't adapt to those as quickly. And, being able to use the minerals and ions are how they respond to other changes, like pH. And finally, usually in water a change in pH is also a change in hardness. So, I think it was easy to mix up the two, but it is important to understand the difference.

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All that said, to the OP: I think that the questions asked by the other posters are good: exactly why are you changing the pH? Similar to the above, most fish are highly adaptable to a wide range of pH, and they can live a long, happy, healthy life even in water not identical to their native or preferred pH. What is really important is to keep all the water stats relatively constant -- hardness, pH, and temperature. Most chemical additives like pH Up and pH Down are temporary solutions, and also typically work by adding chemicals that promote algae growth as a side effect. In short, they usually aren't worth it.

 

[Nexusred]

Mash - I Have an Askoll Pure XL and yes the filter is housed in the hood so introducing some peat would be fairly easy to do, thanks.

Shoulders/thegabzzz/Bignose - Are you suggesting that Killifish would be fine to keep in these conditions? From the little research I have done on Killifish I understand that they require ph 7. Ultimately in a couple of years I would like to keep Discus so I will have to consider ph balance sooner or later.

Thank you for your replies

 

[Bignose]

I would ask in the killifish forum how sensitive the species you are interested in keeping tend to be. But, a pH of 7.8 and 7.0 are actually quite close to one another. I'd be surprised if a species native to 7.0 cannot adapt well to a water of 7.8.

Rather than using chemicals, I would consider using distilled or RO water as a blank pallet and then add back in the minerals as needed.

 

[Biulu]

Regarding killifish: I am personally more worried about your set-up than the pH. You have a typical community set-up and most killifish thrive in species only tanks. Exceptions are epiplatys and lampeyes, but these are not brightly coloured like most of the killifish that we normally see. Yellow panchax can also be held in a community set-up. A very hardy fish with a great behaviour. So, maybe you should tell us first what kind of killifish you are thinking of keeping.

 

[Nexusred]

The LFS had Madagascar in a couple of weeks. They were fairly young and only sold in pairs. I explained what I had in the tank along with the water parameters and his only concern was the high ph. His advice was to try and get it down to 7.2 and everything should be fine. Is this another example of duff information to get a sale?


If for arguments sake they were introduced into the tank with the current stock and a couple of dwarf gourami’s what would you expect to happen?

 

[Biulu]

Nice fish! However, I wouldn't them together with gouramis as they also use the top range of the tank. Maybe some (madagascar) rainbow fish?

Another possibility is to get yourself a 10 gallon (25 litres) which you can use at the same time as a breeding set-up.

The pH won't be an issue; very hardy and can take mildly alkaline water. Your pH should be ok, just acclimatise them slowly and make sure the pH stays stable.

Good luck!