Ph Problems

[Skye]

About 2 1/2 months ago I bought a 10 gal aquarium

I used eco complete as a substrate,
I planted the aquarium added some rocks and began my fishless cycle
I had it looking awesome

by the end of the month I had 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 5.0 nitrates
so I did my 50% water change and added some fish

5 neons, 4 guppies

Within the first 3 days I lost 2 of the guppies then 2 of the neons

after retesting I came to realize that my ph was off the charts 7.8
amazing because our well water is below 6, very acid.

We identified the rocks as the probable culprit,
we pulled them out of the tank and put them in a bucket with some 6.0 well water
soon the ph soared to 7.5...bad bad rocks...stupid stupid me!

We did a big water change on the tank, prolly 60% or more
got the ph down to 6.8.........2 days later it is back at 7.2
this has happened several times.

We do a water change and within 2 days the ph shoots back up

Over the weekend I bought like 4 more neons and 2 female guppies
the one I had died and my male was distraught.

Last night I lost 1 neon and 1 of the guppies doesn't look so good

So I retest everything
Today my stats were 0 ammonia, O nitrites, 10 Nitrates ph 7.2
Ok did another 30% water change and added a wee bit of PRIME to my new water

Question Could the alkaline in those rocks have changed the ph of the gravel
remember I used eco complete for my substrate,

I can't imagine any other reason that water coming out of my well at 6.0
is at 7.2 and climbing within 48 hours.

My husband bought a product called Neutral Controller 7
it supposedly adjusts ph to 7.0....haven't used it yet!

I'm tempted to take the tank apart rinse or replace the substrate, replant and start all over

But I though I'd ask you folks before I do anything rash.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks Skye

ps I would like to use rocks in my aquarium
which are considered safe and how do you know?

 

[Tolak]

Generally speaking, water with a low pH is soft water. Hardness stabilizes pH, the two sort of go hand in hand. If you have soft water your pH will fluctuate easily, this could be caused by your substrate. fluctuations in pH are not good for fish,a stable pH, whether it be 6.0, 7.2, or 7.8 is what is desirable, most fish will acclimate to a wide range of pH values.

Try putting plain tap water in the bucket with an airstone, and test it in a day or two. This will tell you if it's the substrate, or something gassing out of your water causing a pH shift. Also test for hardness, if all you need to do to prevent the pH from shifting is increase the hardness a little, you could save money by adding a litle epsom salt.

 

[dwarfgourami]

It is very unlikely that a ph of 7.8 killed the guppies- that's what they prefer, alkaline water. And they want it hard too. But if it's been fluctuating up and down, that may well have done the damage.

 

[Skye]

Thank you for your replies

I'm still a bit confused

I'm understanding you to say that fish adjust to a wide range of ph
as long as it is CONSTANT

My well water is very acid 6.0 or below
I think that every time I do a partial water change
I'm causing the ph in the tank to fluctuate.
I'm not sure what to do about that.
My Nitrates had climbed to 10
so I thought a partial water change was necessary.

After a 30% water change my ph was at about 6.8
but within 2 days it is again in the 7.4 range and climbing
so something in the tank is effecting the alkalinity,
The rocks are gone so...
I'm thinking it's the substrate, eco complete is what I used.

Could you elaborate on the use of Epsom salt...why and how much?

What about this Neutral Controller 7 stuff
It's supposed to adjust ph to neutral?
Should I use this?
Will this establish a stable ph


thanks

 

[Tolak]

Epsom salt will increase the hardness slightly, and is cheaper than any pH adjusting chemicals you will find in your lfs. Soft water is prone to pH instability, increasing the hardness a little usually helps stabilize the pH.

Plain tap water in a clean bucket, with aeration, will tell you if something is gassing out, or evaporating, out of your tap water, causing the pH to rise. If the pH rises in the plain water in a clean bucket, it's not your substrate. If the pH in the bucket of water remains low, it is your substrate. If it rises the same as the tank, it's something gassing out.

If it's the substrate, you should remove it to prevent pH swings. If it's something gassing out of the water, you could aerate replacement water for 24 hours or so, until the pH stabilizes to that of the tank.

If removing the substrate isn't an option, try adding a little epsom salt to the replacement water, 1/2 to 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Increasing the hardness may help to stabilize the pH. I've used epsom salt in the past to relieve constipation & other illnesses, up to three teaspoons per 10 gallons. It's a common ingredient used for hatching brine shrimp in soft water conditions.

 

[Liam]

Nitrates at 10 are not a problem, my tap water has nitrates up to 50ppm. Fish are fine with even higher nitrates. Have you tried leaving the water out for 24 hours and then testing the ph, there can be a one-point difference in water straight from the tap and left out for 24 to 48 hours as Tolak has suggested, my ph rises almost a point when left out for a day. The ph rise in itself is not a problem, fish are affected by the amount of dissolved solids in the water not the ph. If you add Co2 to the water, the ph can drop in a few hours by a whole point without any trouble for the fish. If you test your carbonate hardness and its above three then your ph will be stable, that’s very soft water.

Even if your substrate (eco complete, doesn’t as far as I know change ph) or rocks are upping the ph that is unlikely to be causing fish deaths unless it was happening very fast. You can test gravel and rocks with vinegar, just put some gravel in a cup and add the vinegar, if the gravel begins to bubble then it is adding to the hardness and rising the ph.

I expect the fish deaths may have some other cause a ph of 7.8 wouldn’t make much difference to neons and its fine for guppies. I wouldn’t try to do anything to change the ph with salts or buffer. It’s a case of chasing the dragon. Hope you get to the bottom of the problem. A 10 gallon is a small tank, so water stability is more difficult than in larger tanks.

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

I havent seen anyone mention this yet, but having plants in your tank will raise the Ph, sometimes dramatically, because they remove the carbon from the water. This could be the problem for you, depending on how many plants you have and how much actualy water volume you are keeping the tank (10 gallon tanks cannot really hold 10 gallons of water as the substrate, plants, rocks, decor, in tank filters, displace some of the water.

Your best bet, IME is to try to maintain at least a constant Ph rather than trying to adjust it all the time as this can put stress on your fish during the fluctuations. I have kept many fish close, but out of range, to their preferred Ph levels and never had a problem since the ph was at least constant.

 

[Kiwigirl]

I agree with Tommy Gunnz your better of trying to keep a stable ph value rather than adjusting it.

 

[Tolak]

Tommy has a point with the plants, which I don't keep. Stable pH is the key, most fish can be kept out of their preferred pH range.

 

[Skye]

Thank you all for your replies!

Yes Tommy I do have the tank heavily planted,
I could try adding flourish excell to add back some carbon?
I'm also planning to install a hagan co2 unit to the tank

Tolak wrote:

Plain tap water in a clean bucket, with aeration, will tell you if something is gassing out, or evaporating, out of your tap water, causing the pH to rise. If the pH rises in the plain water in a clean bucket, it's not your substrate. If the pH in the bucket of water remains low, it is your substrate. If it rises the same as the tank, it's something gassing out.

If it's the substrate, you should remove it to prevent pH swings. If it's something gassing out of the water, you could aerate replacement water for 24 hours or so, until the pH stabilizes to that of the tank.

Ok thanks I'm going to try testing my water in a bucket with aeration to see if my water is gassing off
if so I can aerate my replacement water as you suggest and avoid causing fluctuations when doing water changes.


Thanks again

Skye


I've got my eye on a 29 gal tall tank at the LFS
I hope I can get all my ducks in a row so to speak with this smaller tank first.

 

[Skye]

Hi there

Skye here.....again.

My fish are still Dying!

Last night I lost a male guppy
this morning my fire pearl gourami is sitting in the corner of death (bad)
I noticed the guppy shivering so I did another water test

My water tests ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 5
ph 7.3

I don't understand it

I thought I went by the book,
I cycled the tank,
tested the water,
added fish slowly....

I planted the tank, and I thought it was the prettiest tank I've ever put together
wouldn't you know it!

But I did put in those rocks, they were paving stones, stored under the deck
my husband suspects the chemicals in the treated deck may have been leaching
into those stones...just a theory, It is possible that I poisoned these fish

But the neons still look good
and some baby guppies in the tank still look good
maybe they are tougher or something.

I'm going back into the hospital for some surgery
I don't really have energy to deal with scrubbing the tank right now
I guess I'll see what's left when I come home and feel better
Than I'll change the substrate, replant, restock etc....

I'm so bummed out about this
On my last hospitalization (which was all of August)
all I talked about was setting up a fish tank,

The tank was going to be therapy for me.
I sure have killed a bunch of fish though.


I have my eye on this 29 gallon at the lfs
hubby is not going to be very sympathetic if I keep killing the fish

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions

ps On a brighter note the goldfish I bought for my kids are doing just fine
happy happy goldfish!

 

[ICEEGRL]

You can try taking out the rocks and a few plants and do a water change. That might help. Maybe then they wouldn't all be gone when you get back.
I hope everything goes well for you. You will be in my thoughts and Prayers.
Maybe you can get your husband to do the tank work for you. Taking out rocks and partial water isn't very complicated and doesn't take too long.