Ph Level High/ Hard Water

[shandelfaith]

hello, couple days ago we bought a 10 gallon tank brought it home and set it up. it's been running since sunday night.
 
so far what is in the tank is conditioner from what came with the tank kit and safe start. we have little thermometers i guess you would call them, for ammonia and the pH. The ammonia one is on "safe" but the pH one is on 8.
 
After reading about reason why the pH can be high and we live in an apartment, I'm going to go with we have hard water . . which we did not read about until after the fact of setting up the tank. My question is what can we do to fix this, or if it's too complicated to lower it . . are there any fish that can live in a high pH 10 gallon tank, if so what are they?
 
we have 3 fake plants, and 2 hiding decorations, I also saw you can add driftwood in your tank to lower pH, but would driftwood fit in a 10 gallon tank and can it go with any type of fish?
 
if pH levels were close to "normal" I was thinking about getting:
 
dwarf gourami, some danios and some tetra and a small catfish for the bottom. how many of each of these species would we need and can they all get along in a 10 gallon tank? Upgrading to a bigger tank is not an option since we live in an apartment and most likely moving in the future so we don't want the hassle of moving a big tank.
 
Thank You for your help.

 

[Byron]

Welcome to this fascinating hobby, and to the forum.
 
First, I should mention that a 10 gallon tank is a fairly small space when it comes to fish, so some careful selection with advanced research will help you avoid real trouble.  I'll come back to the pH issue, but say here that most of the "common" fish will be too large for a 10g either because of their mature size or because you need a group.  Shoaling fish like the tetra, danio, rasbora and barbs live in large groups, and there must be a decent number of the species to avoid issues with stress (for the fish, more than the aquarist, but that too when the fish keep dying).  There are some "dwarf" species that would be fine.
 
This brings me to the dwarf gourami mentioned; in spite of the name, this is not really a small fish, and on top of that it is not always healthy.  Neale Monks frequently recommends avoiding this species unless you get the fish direct from the breeder, and this is wise advice.  Generally, gourami suited to a 10g tank will be a few of the rare species that being wild caught would need careful water parameter control.  Another aspect is that fish the size of the dwarf gourami (at maturity) in a small tank tend to look out of place visually, notwithstanding other issues for the fish itself.
 
To the pH.  It is not easy to lower pH, and the reason is rather complicated.  In brief (very brief), the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) are closely connected, and the latter in particular works to "buffer" the pH to prevent it fluctuating.  I won't go into all the business of dealing with this at least not yet; but at this point I would suggest you contact your municipal water authority (via their website probably, or directly) and ascertain the numbers for the GH and KH.  GH impacts fish more than pH, and both these will tell us if the pH may lower or not in time, naturally.  This data will also be crucial in considering suitable fish; it is much easier and safer to select fish that can manage in one's water parameters than attempting to adjust them; the latter is certainly possible, but can get involved and costly.
 
Byron.

 

[Munroco]

Celestial pearl danios - very small, beautiful fish and depending where you are in US you may not need to heat the tank.

 

[shandelfaith]

Thank you! This may make me sound stupid but we live in a small town in va and ive looked for water levels and the water company but I couldnt find anything. Is there another way to find out pH and GH levels of the tap water? Would reverse osmosis kits work o diluting with distilled water?

 

[Byron]

Thank you! This may make me sound stupid but we live in a small town in va and ive looked for water levels and the water company but I couldnt find anything. Is there another way to find out pH and GH levels of the tap water? Would reverse osmosis kits work o diluting with distilled water?

 
You have an authority that provides your water (you mentioned living in an apartment, so I will assume you are not on a private well) so you should be able to track them down.  You are paying taxes for the water, so start with your municipality.  The water folks are the ones who will know the data for your water.  This is always the first step in setting up a fish tank; while there are some fish that can adapt somewhat, there are others that cannot.
 
Before you get into the expensive/involved RO and distilled issue, let's find out what you have; it may be perfectly fine.

 

[shandelfaith]

Ok I found something under fauquier county sanitation water authority. . But the only chart I saw for my town is from 2012 and it had nitrate/nitrite listed but nothing for pH. Nitrate levels were 2.6. Am I getting somewhere?

 

[Byron]

Ok I found something under fauquier county sanitation water authority. . But the only chart I saw for my town is from 2012 and it had nitrate/nitrite listed but nothing for pH. Nitrate levels were 2.6. Am I getting somewhere?

 
Some water authorities do not include pH and GH/KH, I guess they assume that because these are not likely to kill those drinking the water (unlike contaminants and high nitrate) they are less valuable data.  Now that you know your authority, call them and ask for the numbers; they should know this, though one never knows.
 
Byron.

 

[shandelfaith]

I emailed them and that got back to me today sating ph is 7.21 su - 7.41su. And she didnt know what gh or kh was.

 

[Byron]

I emailed them and that got back to me today sating ph is 7.21 su - 7.41su. And she didnt know what gh or kh was.

 
The pH is fine for many fish, but the GH is still what you need.  Now you have another option, and that is to take some tap water to a reliable local fish store; many will do tests for free, provided you don't overwhelm them obviously, as they would like your business.  As them to test the GH and KH while at it, and make sure you get numbers, not terms; the latter are open to interpretation depending upon what the person doing the test thinks is "hard" or "moderate," etc.  Whatever test they use will have some number system, so write down the number and the units used (degrees, parts per million, or whatever).
 
The KH is also known as Alkalinity, and this has less impact on fish than GH but is still important because this is what buffers pH to prevent fluctuation.  Knowing the GH and KH will enable us to surmise if the pH is likely to lower over time, and this can have consequences for some fish too.
 
Byron.

 

[daizeUK]

we have little thermometers i guess you would call them, for ammonia and the pH. The ammonia one is on "safe" but the pH one is on 8.

 
Welcome to the forum, it's great to see you asking such great questions before buying fish!
 
You mentioned an ammonia indicator which is currently reading 'safe'.  I would like to point out that ammonia is a biological waste product excreted by fish and any rotting organic matter.  So it is quite expected to have a 'safe' ammonia reading when there are no fish in the tank yet.  The problem will come when you get fish and they start producing ammonia.  The best way to make the tank ready is to introduce ammonia-eating bacteria before you add any fish.  This is called 'cycling' the tank and full instructions are here:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
 
I would advise choosing fish to suit your pH and water hardness rather than trying to alter the water you've got.  Based on the size of your tank and high pH I'm tempted to suggest guppies.  Guppies prefer hard water so you do need to have some idea of whether your water is hard or soft.  You can try asking your water supplier how hard the water is, or you can buy a simple test kit (even a strip dip test will give you a basic idea of your gH) or failing that, check your kettle and taps for limescale build-up!