Ph Fluctuating

[Tobigara]

why does my ph fluctuate so much weekly? it's only in one of my 4 tanks which confuses me a bit cause i use the same water and dechlorinator in all of them. there are no real plants and only a small piece of driftwood. it fluctuates between less than 6 and 7. i say less than 6 because my tests only go down to 6. i have some crushed coral in there at the moment in an attempt to steady it but it doesn't seem to help. my tap water has a ph of 7, gh and kh of approx 10 so it should have some buffering capacity right? any help would be REALLY appreciated.

 

[rabbut]

why does my ph fluctuate so much weekly? it's only in one of my 4 tanks which confuses me a bit cause i use the same water and dechlorinator in all of them. there are no real plants and only a small piece of driftwood. it fluctuates between less than 6 and 7. i say less than 6 because my tests only go down to 6. i have some crushed coral in there at the moment in an attempt to steady it but it doesn't seem to help. my tap water has a ph of 7, gh and kh of approx 10 so it should have some buffering capacity right? any help would be REALLY appreciated.

with a KH of 10, I would have expected a much higher pH. My KH is 2 and my pH without modification remains at 7. Presumable you are using liquid drop kits for both KH and pH? I'm shure you are aware that dip strips are very inaccurate. The crushed coral may help, but I'm dobtful, with a hight carbonate hardness you should already have a relitively high pH, which you don't. It very strange. Whats you other water stats? Fish stocking?

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Tobigara]

Thanks for replying

so i'm not alone in thinking it's strange? that's a relief. yes, i'm using liquid tests. the other stats are all good for a mature tank. amm - 0; nitrite - 0; nitrate - never more than 15; temp - solid 79-80. these don't change.

as for the stocking...3-4" severum, 2" jaguar (my girlfriend brought it home), 5" pleco and 2 1" synos. All in a 55 gallon.

 

[rabbut]

Tis very strange, the only thing I can think of is possibly the bog wood is some how affecting the water stats. Try running carbon for a few days, and make shure the surface is well agetated to drive off CO2. Other than that I can't think whats effecting it.

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Tobigara]

Sadly i'm kinda forced to use carbon do to the filters on that tank. i think i'm going to remove the driftwood and the crushed coral see what happens. thanks for the replies.

if anyone else has any ideas, i'd appreciate it

 

[Tobigara]

anyone else? please

 

[rdd1952]

What time of day are you testing the pH? Do you have live plants? Are you adding anything to the tank besides food (chemicals, etc.)? It is extremely odd for it to fluctuate up and down. With a KH of 10, your pH should be relatively stable unless something else is causing the swings. Even if it drops some because of the driftwood (it really shouldn't as you should have plenty of buffering capacity), it should stay down and not come back up and then drop again.

 

[Tobigara]

i don't have any live plants cause it's a cichlid tank. i don't go near any chemicals. just dechlorinator. i usually test around midday on sundays. would melafix do something? my girlfriend puts some in everytime she sees something she thinks is wrong. which isn't often but does happen

 

[rdd1952]

The Melafix shouldn't have any effect on the pH. It really is hard to figure why it is changing so much.

 

[Tommy Gun]

my girlfriend puts some in everytime she sees something she thinks is wrong.

No offense to you or your girlfriend, but adding Melafix on a whim could come back to haunt you. It definitely wouldn't do anything to help stabilize your pH anyways. I bet if you added enough of it, you could change the pH though. I got pretty leery about the stuff after one of my kids literally killed everything in my reef tank by dumping a bottle of pimafix in it (apparently he felt that 'nemo was sick')

It is extremely odd for it to fluctuate up and down.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but I disagree....it is pretty easy to change the pH of a relatively tiny body of water; intentional or not. You can do it with a water change, a couple of the wrong rocks or substrate, even adding some snail shells. I could basically sneeze and change the pH of old livebearer tank.

What is the pH of the water before you put it in the tank?

Are you using a high range or low range pH test.....or one that tests for it all?

Do you have algae problems?

Do you have any water movement in the tank?

How about movement on the water's surface?

Any air stones/air pumps on or in the tank?

Is the water temp staying the same all of the time...even at night?

When you bought the driftwood, was it dry or did it come out of another tank?

Did it turn your water brown or yellow-ish?

You are absolutely sure that there is nothing different between this tank and the other four tanks? Nothing at all?

Do they all have wood in them?

What substrate do you have in this tank with the problem?

i think i'm going to remove the driftwood and the crushed coral see what happens. thanks for the replies.

I am not really sure if I would start taking out the wood and/or the crushed coral quite yet since this could just lead to more problems. It is my understanding that a pH change alone will not neccessarily harm your fish but if the Kh, and Gh starts changing as well, you could harm your fish.

You haven't noticed any odd behavior in your fish?

Any sudden, unexplained deaths?

Maybe it would be good to get a second opinion on your test results....do you have an LFS that might test the water for you? (just be sure that you get actual numbers, and don't let them talk you into buying a bunch of chemicals - but you already know that)

How much crushed coral have you added? Maybe try placing a small amount in your filter would help affect a greater majority of water in a shorter amount of time....just be sure that you add it very slowly.

Just to be sure, you aren't trying to shoot for a specific pH, just trying to get it to stabilize, right?

 

[SJ2K]

I am not really sure if I would start taking out the wood and/or the crushed coral quite yet since this could just lead to more problems. It is my understanding that a pH change alone will not neccessarily harm your fish but if the Kh, and Gh starts changing as well, you could harm your fish.

Spot on, unless the fish start to clearly suffer i wouldnt start messing around with crushed coral etc, Ph flux's wont harm them but as said, Kh may do.

 

[Tobigara]

my girlfriend puts some in everytime she sees something she thinks is wrong.

No offense to you or your girlfriend, but adding Melafix on a whim could come back to haunt you. It definitely wouldn't do anything to help stabilize your pH anyways. I bet if you added enough of it, you could change the pH though. I got pretty leery about the stuff after one of my kids literally killed everything in my reef tank by dumping a bottle of pimafix in it (apparently he felt that 'nemo was sick')

It is extremely odd for it to fluctuate up and down.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but I disagree....it is pretty easy to change the pH of a relatively tiny body of water; intentional or not. You can do it with a water change, a couple of the wrong rocks or substrate, even adding some snail shells. I could basically sneeze and change the pH of old livebearer tank.

What is the pH of the water before you put it in the tank? 7

Are you using a high range or low range pH test.....or one that tests for it all? low range. it never goes above 7.5

Do you have algae problems? none

Do you have any water movement in the tank? yes but probably not much

How about movement on the water's surface? i def have good surface agitation

Any air stones/air pumps on or in the tank? yes

Is the water temp staying the same all of the time...even at night? yes...temp is very steady

When you bought the driftwood, was it dry or did it come out of another tank? dry but was soaked for a while

Did it turn your water brown or yellow-ish? no

You are absolutely sure that there is nothing different between this tank and the other four tanks? Nothing at all? i can't think of anything besides the obvious. stocking, tank size etc.

Do they all have wood in them? yes. 3 have one piece each and 1 has 4 pieces but it isn't the problem tank

What substrate do you have in this tank with the problem? black and pink gravel

i think i'm going to remove the driftwood and the crushed coral see what happens. thanks for the replies.

I am not really sure if I would start taking out the wood and/or the crushed coral quite yet since this could just lead to more problems. It is my understanding that a pH change alone will not neccessarily harm your fish but if the Kh, and Gh starts changing as well, you could harm your fish.

You haven't noticed any odd behavior in your fish? not really lately

Any sudden, unexplained deaths? my blue jd died 2/3 weeks ago for no reason that i could see

Maybe it would be good to get a second opinion on your test results....do you have an LFS that might test the water for you? (just be sure that you get actual numbers, and don't let them talk you into buying a bunch of chemicals - but you already know that) the only good one is an hour away i don't trust the ones near me

How much crushed coral have you added? Maybe try placing a small amount in your filter would help affect a greater majority of water in a shorter amount of time....just be sure that you add it very slowly. 2 small mesh bags in the filter. maybe 3 tablespoons worth for each bag. i added it a bit at a time months ago

Just to be sure, you aren't trying to shoot for a specific pH, just trying to get it to stabilize, right? i'd like to keep it stable somewhere between 6.5 and 7 but i'll take practically anything at this point

good questions. i hope this helps you to help me

 

[rabbut]

Possibly the waterchanges are caursing the flucuations. The crushed coral in your filters will be releasing carbonate salts into the tank, raising the pH. You change the water, carbonate hardness falls, and then slowly rises. pH follows not far behind. As the coral gets older, it will take it longer to raise the pH again, and may caurse it to fluctuate. Mebe time to change the coral and hopefuly that will fix it. Coral looses effect with time.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[rdd1952]

why does my ph fluctuate so much weekly? it's only in one of my 4 tanks which confuses me a bit cause i use the same water and dechlorinator in all of them. there are no real plants and only a small piece of driftwood. it fluctuates between less than 6 and 7. i say less than 6 because my tests only go down to 6. i have some crushed coral in there at the moment in an attempt to steady it but it doesn't seem to help. my tap water has a ph of 7, gh and kh of approx 10 so it should have some buffering capacity right? any help would be REALLY appreciated.

as for the stocking...3-4" severum, 2" jaguar (my girlfriend brought it home), 5" pleco and 2 1" synos. All in a 55 gallon.

It is extremely odd for it to fluctuate up and down.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but I disagree....it is pretty easy to change the pH of a relatively tiny body of water; intentional or not. You can do it with a water change, a couple of the wrong rocks or substrate, even adding some snail shells. I could basically sneeze and change the pH of old livebearer tank.

I know we seem to be disagreeing on a lot of issues Tommy. While I agree that it is relatively simple to change the pH of a tank with little or no buffering capacity, in a 55 gallon tank (or any size tank for that matter), the pH should NEVER fluctuate from between 6 to 7, up and down, on a day in, day out basis. It's surprising that there has only been one death as a pH in constant swing like that is extremely hard on the fish. It's the reason we always caution against using the pH adjusting chemcials.

It's true that adding rocks, driftwood, etc can have an effect but the pH will move to where those items take it, up or down, and stay relatively close to there except for after water changes, which can obviously change it depending on the difference between tank and tap pH. If you stick a couple large pieces of tufa rock in the tank, yes, the pH is going to climb. But it won't come back down the next day and then back up again. Same goes for driftwood. Add several pieces and the pH will most likely drop some but again, won't go back up the next day and then back down the day after. Obviously, the buffering capacity is the key item there but even with no buffering, it should still stay relatively steady at the point it moves to (or continue to move slightly in the direction it is going) but would just be much easier to change with the addition of those items. The key here isn't that it is changing, it's that the huge fluctuations in both directions and to me what makes this even more difficult to understand is that her GH & KH are both 10 so she has plenty of buffering capacity to prevent this from happening.

I do agree that it's not a good idea to start removing everything from the tank. As a general rule, the driftwood shouldn't have a huge effect on a tank with the GH & KH where they are. One thing that Tommy touched on that could be an issue is the oxygen exchange. I can't imagine what could be causing a problem there based on the answers you gave but the amount of O2 & CO2 in the water will effect the pH but it doesn't sound as if that would be your problem.

You said you tested on Sundays. Do you do it before or after water changes (what day do you do water changes)? Is it just a matter of it's up one week when you test and then down the next week? For a week, I would suggest testing twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening, as close to the same time each day as possible, so you can get a better idea of what is happening during the week rather than simply having one snapshot.

 

[Tobigara]

i test the water before the water change every sunday. i can't test before work but i'll see if there is a difference in ph from when i first get home to right before i turn the lights off.