Ph Dropping Fast

[Rummynose]

I'm sorry snazy if you felt like i was putting words in your mouth. I should have put a period behind agreeing with your statement. I only wanted to add my two cents talking about the toxicity of nitrates, lol!

And just to clarify, the ph swing being nothing compared to ammonia and nitrate was not my post!

 

[snazy]

I didn't mean to sound harsh
Sorry.
I only rephrazed my sentence there, as I thought it was wrongly understood.
Hate that faceless typing. It's easy to get the wrong idea.
I really apologize if I sounded cross or anything

 

[three-fingers]

I agree with snazy, nitrates are toxic also, but not in the same level as ammonia and nitrite.

I meant that it is highly unlikely the tap water to have high nitrates, because nitrates although not as toxic to fish, are actually toxic to humans.

Nitrate is essentially non-toxic to fish on its own, and while not great for humans, most of us drink high quantities from tap water every day. Some forum members here have nitrate levels if 40ppm + straight from the tap, and in big cities in summer the levels can be higher. London commonly sees over 80ppm - in countries with less-strict water regulations it could easily be waaaaay higher.
I've read multiple times here that studies show even sensitive riverine fish like trout and salmon to cope with 400ppm nitrate for extended periods of time with no ill effect. Nitrate is even dosed into planted tanks with very sensitive inhabitants like crystal red shrimp, discus and blue rams as a plant food, to make sure it never drops down to too low a concentration .

High nitrate in a fish tank (if the tap water levels are low to begin with) can be an indication of not enough water changes, overfeeding and in mature tanks, dirt and mulm building up through lack of maintenance (as you mention) however the nitrates themselves aren't really an issue for most freshwater fish. Generally the advice on here is that nitrate concentration isn't important at all, as long as it's not massively above what comes out the tap.

Reason Number 1 for Ph crash in fish tank is high nitrate build up in aquarium, whether from waste,incapable filter, or irregular water changes, etc...

Thats not my experience at all, my experience is that pH crash is caused by low KH and GH tap water that just doesn't have the buffering capacity. I would personally say thats the case here . Just like why you cant use pure RO water in an aquarium.

Buy a new fish that was in a 7.6 Ph and put it straight from the bag to a 6.0 Ph let's say, presumably the water temperature is the same. What happens?
That's why we acclimate fish and so on. Fast Ph swing kills the fish faster than ammonia and nitriTtes.

The fish would be perfectly fine . It's hardness and TDS that are really important, not pH. pH fluctuates massively daily in nature too . People who run high levels of CO2 in planted tanks often see pH swing from 7.6 down to 6.0 on a daily basis, as do people who run natural Walstad-style planted tank. Ammonia and nitrite are far, far more deadly than pH swings!

 

[snazy]

First of all Happy Christmas

Nitrate is essentially non-toxic to fish on its own, and while not great for humans, most of us drink high quantities from tap water every day

I didn't say it it toxic to fish, but the ammount of nitrates in which certain types of fish thrives and are not sickly is different.
Although humans happen to have a lot of nitrates either from water, or vegetables, etc..., they can do a long term damage if that's on regular bases and humans tolerate a lot less than fish do actually.

Thats not my experience at all, my experience is that pH crash is caused by low KH and GH tap water that just doesn't have the buffering capacity. I would personally say thats the case here . Just like why you cant use pure RO water in an aquarium.

That's correct, but I guess I need to elaborate on my statement that high nitrates is reason number one for Ph crash. In detail, what I meant is that the process of accumulating nitrates acidifies the water. Therefore when there is a lot of waste in a tank, the nitrogen cycle converts a lot more nitrate, which as a result acidifies the water more and affects the carbonate hardness, meaning the buffering capacity decreases. The buffering capacity, acidic water and Ph are all closely related, the Ph will either start to drop gradually, or drop all of a sudden, that also depends on other factors. That's why it happens sometimes to test the fish tank water, the Ph is still the same but the KH has been dropping consistently, causing eventually the Ph crash once the buffering capacity is below a certain level.
So solution is, clean you tank, siphon your gravel, do regular water changes and maintain your filter or get another one.

It's hardness and TDS that are really important, not pH. pH fluctuates massively daily in nature too

That's not anything different than what I said. Normally when the Ph drops, the TDS drops. TDS and PH are directly proportional and a sudden Ph drop may indicate a sudden TDS drop. Whether in a nature or in aquarium,it will affect the fish and how do we know what survives this? There are of course other factors that cause a Ph swing. So, yes, it is not the Ph shift that is the cause of death directly, but the sudden swing in Ph is the indicator, showing us that there is a problem with the other water parameters. If not killing the fish, these changes will damage the fish mentally and physically long term.

People who run high levels of CO2 in planted tanks often see pH swing from 7.6 down to 6.0 on a daily basis, as do people who run natural Walstad-style planted tank.

This is a completely different story and has nothing to do with a sudden Ph drop non-related to adding CO2. This type of Ph change does not really affect the fish, as the KH, GH and TDS are not really changing.

It is the cause of Ph that matters in my opinion, and when qingwei789 said that the nitrate is 100ppm, then I presumed that the water was being acidified on regular basis because of high conversion of ammonia/nitites to nitrates, and is the possible cause of the problem.

Someone else may have a better opinion and solution I guess, as without the proper testing you never know. But is one possibility.

 

[qingwei789]

My apologies guys, I was away these few days and did not notice these replies.
Recently, I came across this article talking about alkalinity, pH, calcium content.
http/www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm
It appears that carbonate affects alkalinity and calcium content is essential for fish growth.

There are some parts that I am confuse,
The article mention that I should balance my calcium and carbonate content. Is adding limestone sufficient to keep it balance?
My calcium hardness is about 100ppm.


I am also trying to find out the source of my problem.
Firstly, carbon dioxide is not causing the drop in pH because I have provided plenty aeration to strip off the carbon dioxide.
Secondly, I read on articles talking about the presence of nitrate and phosphate that would cause the water to be acidic.
This may be the problem and I am trying to reduce the nitrate and phosphate level.
I am conducting about 20% change of water everyday ever since this problem had started. (Been a month)
The nitrate and phosphate never drops, it has been raising non stop.
I believe that if I have not done such frequent water change the rate of nitrate raising would be even faster.
And snazy by taking your advice, I would clear my gravels and start siphoning the waste to see if it works.

Lastly, thank you all for the helpful replies. Hope you have had a Happy Christmas