Ph and all it's hardships

[Mr_Talisman]

Ok this is a puzzler to deal with and hoping someone here has dealt with a similar issue I. have a new 75 gallon freshwater tank into the 29th day of cycling , out the gate I noticed a high PH after the first week, I figured after it gets more into the cycle the PH would drop, im currently doing weekly changed at 25%, instead of going down it has been going up grrrr.



I decided to investigate some, I took a sample from the tap and measured it, it was 7.7, I was surprised it was so low, I tool that sample and let it set for 24 hours then rechecked it again, well it was at 8.6, quite a difference, I am assuming the city is adding some kind of buffer in the water to lower the ph, after it gases it raises back up.

This morning I decided to add some Peat pellets in a bag and place it in my HOB, I just did a small amount so it wont change drastically.

My question is should I even play with this Ph?
I mean every time I do a water change it's going to go down them up again, even with the peat it seams the PH will never be stable.

Any input would be great

Thank you

 

[fluttermoth]

It's best not to try and change pH. Fish can suffer very badly if the pH levels change too much.

Also bear in mind that hardness is more important to fish than pH, and most (although not all) high pH water has a high pH because it's hard and anything you add to the water to reduce pH won't affect the hardness.

There are a lot of fish that like or need harder water, so it's much better for them, a well as easier for you, to pick fish that like the water you have.

You can find out the hardness of your water on your supplier's website; do take notice of what scale they're using, as it can vary, and we need to know the scale as well as the numbers.

On a side note; are you adding any ammonia to the tank? If you're not, you're not cycling; just wasting time and electricity heating and circulating straight tap water. If you don't add a source of food for the bacteria, you won't be able to grow a decent colony.

 

[Mr_Talisman]

chart above shows parameters since cycle start and yes it is being cycled with a small amount of stock

 

[StevenF]

I am assuming the city is adding some kind of buffer in the water to lower the ph, after it gases it raises back up.

Actually tap water typically has additives to keep the PH up. If the PH falls below 7 water pipes will start to corrode. Flint Michigan stopped doing that to save money. Lead pipes then started to corrode exposing much of the population to excessive levels of lead. In the water pipes there is a lot of CO2 resolved in the water. CO2 is acidic in water. Once it evaporates from the water the PH will climb due to the additives often added.

The best way to lower it if necessary is to mix some RO water with the tap water. That increases the volume and reduces the mineral content. Naturally if you use too much RO water you have to deal with low GH water. Which may require a GH booster suche as Sachem Equilibrium.

 

[Byron]

I agree with others generally.

The tap water by the time it comes out of your tap has dissolved an amount of CO2 into it, and this creates carbonic acid which lowers the pH. Once you out-gas the CO2, the pH will be what it actually is in the source water, i.e., this is the accurate reading for the water. The amount of CO2 dissolved in tap water can vary; I see this even here with water that is very soft (basically zero GH and KH). Some weeks when I do the water changes the CO2 is so high in the water that the plants will begin after some minutes to release excess oxygen (what we term pearling) because the higher CO2 has increased their rate of photosynthesis. So that is probably why you see the pH go from the initial 7.7 to 8.6...this is not at all surprising.

Second comment, is that areas with harder water tend not to use pH adjustment because it is not necessary. A pH of 8.6 in the water is not going to cause much corrosion. Where I live, the natural pH of the reservoir water is well below 5, and they add sodium ash to raise it to 7 to reduce corrosion. I don't see why they would waste the money to do this with so high a pH, and a relatively high GH/KH too. Now, I'm not saying they might not be adding something as well...you could check their website as this is public information.

Third comment, respecting your tank water pH going from 8.3 to 8.7 over four weeks...this is not much. Obviously it is settling out at the natural pH of the source water. You could raise this even higher with calcareous substances (limestone, marble, coral, shell, dolomite, aragonite) but you don't need to be doing that. But the point is that if you had for example a substrate composed of any of these substances it would raise the GH, KH and pH.

Lowering the pH involves lowering the GH and KH. The pH will not lower without dealing with the GH and KH. This is not anywhere so easy or simple as raising these parameters. But they have to be dealt with together. GH is actually the more important for fish, provided the KH and pH are relatively stable and not fluctuating. And attempting to adjust the pH without reducing the GH and KH will mean fluctuating pH which can be deadly to fish.

It is fairly obvious that your tank water will be moderately hard (a GH around 10 to 12 dGH, or 179 to 214 ppm which is the same as mg/l) with a high pH in the mid to upper 8's. Select suitable fish...most hard water species like livebearers, rift lake cichlids, some of the rainbowfish come to mind. If you want softer water fish, you will need to reduce the GH/KH/pH and the safest method is by diluting the tap water with "pure" water. I won't get into that detail.

Byron.

 

[Mr_Talisman]

thanks for all the imput, current stock is are Mollys, couple of Dwarf Guaramis, a female Betta and a Platy, they all seem to be doing well in this hard water environment but they must be stressed, I was hoping for a quick fix but no such luck , luckily I did not continue stocking like I had started, I will shop around and find suitable and compatible fish for these parameters.

Thanks again

 

[Byron]

thanks for all the imput, current stock is are Mollys, couple of Dwarf Guaramis, a female Betta and a Platy, they all seem to be doing well in this hard water environment but they must be stressed, I was hoping for a quick fix but no such luck , luckily I did not continue stocking like I had started, I will shop around and find suitable and compatible fish for these parameters.

Thanks again

The livebearers (molly, platy) should be fine. The dwarf gourami and betta would prefer it softer and lower pH, but this fish is commercially raised and likely better able to manage here than for instance wild caught soft water fish.