Pearling/co2 Question

[dannowittmorris]

Hi, I am currently running Bio Co2 from Ferplast in a 21 g tank.

I checked out the PFK calculators and for my size tank they suggest 11.4 bubbles per minute of CO2, I have apprx 30 bpm and a ppm of CO2 of 11.37 ish, however I never get any Pearling?.

I am also feeding plants with Tropica Plant Nutrician + twice a week and have 2.28 WPG of lighting.

Any ideas

 

[nry]

The bpm rates for yeast-based (Bio) CO2 addition are generally not the same as those required from an injected CO2 system unless I am missing things. Depending on how the CO2 enters your water (e.g. a ladder like the Nutrafin kit), 30bpm from yeast-based may not be anywhere close to the CO2 levels you'd get from an injected system running at a similar bubble count....I was getting something silly like 60bpm from my Nutrafin bottle but I was only just sitting at the 'correct' CO2 level according to my permanent test.

For pearling to be apparent then you will likely need to get closer to the suggested ideal CO2 level of 30ppm, though to my knowledge pearling depends on more than CO2, it needs the relevant levels of nutrients to be available to the plants aswell but someone please shoot me down if I am wrong!

 

[Underwurlde]

What plants have you got that you are expecting to pearl?

As a 'test', putting a plant in direct sunlight will, if it ever will, get it to pearl within about an hour. What we can assume from this is, that it is not necessarily the total wattage of your lighting (WPG is a poor rule IMHO), but plants also need the correct spectra of light. Therefore, what lights are you using?

Putting a tank in direct sunlight, of course, is just asking for algae though....

Andy

 

[dannowittmorris]

What plants have you got that you are expecting to pearl?

As a 'test', putting a plant in direct sunlight will, if it ever will, get it to pearl within about an hour. What we can assume from this is, that it is not necessarily the total wattage of your lighting (WPG is a poor rule IMHO), but plants also need the correct spectra of light. Therefore, what lights are you using?

Putting a tank in direct sunlight, of course, is just asking for algae though....

Andy

Hi, not sure which plants should or should'nt Pearl, however here's my list (from the pack I bought from Java Plants), I'd like some of them to pearl at least, they are all growing ok though althought the Polyspema went a bit droopy.

Foreground
E Tenellus (some of it is brown from my old set up, hope it will recover)
Red Ivy
Bacopa Monnieri
Red Water Rose
Pygmy Chain Sword
Amazons

Midground
Red ludwigia
Red Ambulia
Valuius Corkscrew
Rotala macandra
Sag Subulata

Background
Hygropila corymbosa
Hygro polysperma
Vallis Torta (a bit hidden)
Elodea Densa
Cobomba

I am using the Arcadia Original Tropical Tube (Says on the packaging its best for plant growth), the original 15w, and and extra 18w and 15 watt )I have 18w tubes in them all to spread the light, fluval supplied the tank with an 18w fitting but on investigation only fitted a 15w controller), I have the 18 W at the front over the E tennelus. Heres a link to my tank http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=831

 

[SuperColey1]

The big Arcadia con strikes again.

The Original Tropical Lamp is Arcadias budget lamp (hence the price)

It actually says something like:

'helps plant growth' which is a bit of a silly statement because any light will help plant grwoth if there is none.

The Freshwater Arcadia Lamp (The more expensive) is the better light.

If you like the Orig Tropical then I can sell you my old ones (2 months old) as I use Interpet Daylight Plus and Arcadia Freshwater now.

Andy

 

[Underwurlde]

I'd agree, but look how many lights the dude has!

 

[dannowittmorris]

I'd agree, but look how many lights the dude has!

Its only actually 48w spread across the tank 2.28 wpg.

I think my main issue is down to CO2, the ferts and Lighting are ok but the CO2 is very low, infact from checking my water parameters back to pre CO2 the Co2 levels have hardly increased at all (9ppm>11.4ppm), so I have speeded up the bubble count by placing the Bio canister somewhere warmer (by a lighting controller no less) , and I'm considering adding a second canister, that said all my plants are doing fine, just no pearling.

Incidently I switched off the two additional lamps earlier and with just the original running its really dim, the rear 15w only really stops the shadowing at the top of the rear glass and its the 18w and 15 w fronts that do all the work.

I'll look at the freshwater/daylight lamps next time I make a change, though I recall the freshwater lamp give things a yellowish green tinge, maybe I'll mix em.

Thx

 

[SuperColey1]

I know he has a Fluval 800 Uno.

Same footprint as mine. Same make as mine. almost same hood as mine. yet he has 3 tubes totalling 48W and I have totalling 73W. lol

All the Fluval tanks seem to have underpowered ballast to tube ratio.

Mine had 1 unit to power 2 x 18W lights but the ballast said 2 x 15W = 6W loss

Smith RCs 1200 had 2 x 36W but he had 2 units same as mine = 12W loss

Doesn't really matter because if you're going planted you upgrade these old magnetics anyway. lol

Andy

 

[2pods]

I don't know how seriously to take the PFK Bubble Calculator.

It's recommending 16 bubbles a minute for me based on a 400l tank with a KH of 2

However, to get anywhere near 30ppm, It's 2 bubbles per second.
Which gives me 23.89ppm with a pH of 6.4

Peter

 

[dannowittmorris]

I don't know how seriously to take the PFK Bubble Calculator.

It's recommending 16 bubbles a minute for me based on a 400l tank with a KH of 2

However, to get anywhere near 30ppm, It's 2 bubbles per second.
Which gives me 23.89ppm with a pH of 6.4

Peter

I think I agree, I supose thats the problem with being a newbie, ie who to get advice from, thats why these forums are so helpfull.

I think more C02 is the answer, trial and error and all that, more trial and less error though, in fairness I'd rather the plants suffered till I get it right, rather than over do it and risk my Fish!!!, but I have already upped the bubble count to a heady 45 bpm and i am going to add a second bio canister.

Might go presurised later in the year.

PS, yes its A fluval uno 800, what a swiz adding a 15w contoller, must have saved fluval at least 20p!!!!, the swine .

Danno

 

[Underwurlde]

OK then, look at it from another angle: You think you need more CO2, but how about a more efficent way of getting that CO2 intot the water?

I use a nutrafin kit which gave me about 11 - 13 ppm CO2 (IF you believe the measurements to calc that),
after adding one of these:
http/www.barrreport.com/articles/41-diy-...-co2-users.html
http/www.barrreport.com/articles/72-venturi-design.html
it shot up to more like 25ppm.

The only draw back that I found after making my own is that it is large and unsightly in my small tank. BTW did I mention that your tank looks the biz mate!

Andy

PS, I think we're also concluding that you're gunna have to sort your lights out as well?

 

[dannowittmorris]

OK then, look at it from another angle: You think you need more CO2, but how about a more efficent way of getting that CO2 intot the water?

I use a nutrafin kit which gave me about 11 - 13 ppm CO2 (IF you believe the measurements to calc that),
after adding one of these:
http/www.barrreport.com/articles/41-diy-...-co2-users.html
http/www.barrreport.com/articles/72-venturi-design.html
it shot up to more like 25ppm.

The only draw back that I found after making my own is that it is large and unsightly in my small tank. BTW did I mention that your tank looks the biz mate!

Andy

PS, I think we're also concluding that you're gunna have to sort your lights out as well?

Hi Andy

Thanks for the thumbs up on the tank , re the diffuser I have a Ferplast power diffuser which is a similar device I think, it has a power head that stirs the bubbles about and pushes the water down out of the bottom of the unit via a foam piece, I've had positive feedback on it from others so I might try upping of CO2 first with a second canister ( I have already sped up the bubble count by placing the bio mix by the warm lighting controller).

Re lighting?, not enough or wrong tubes???, the lighting is at 2.28wpg so should be bright enough>

Thanks Danno

 

[SuperColey1]

2.228 is plenty for pearling.

I use 2 x Nutrafin cannisters linked to a glass bubble counter then to a glass non return valve then to a Rhinox 2000 glass/ceramic diffusor

My drop checker is bordering yellow (This is on Duo Deep 800 so I am 33US/29UK)

So I know I am in the ball park for aprrox 40ppm.

I change my yeast mix weekly (1 on a wednesday and 1 on a sunday) and the are linked to a gangvalve so that I can close 1 tube before removing the cannister and therefore I don't release all the pressure when I refill one

Andy

 

[lowee]

I'm having the same problem, ive got 3.5WPG, pressurized co2 but no pearling!

 

[sophos9]

I've got 1.04WPG (50w over 180l) and mine pearl

If you have higher light then check your nutrients...