Paranoid About Bloat!

[HairyTornado™]

I guess the question I should really be asking is, do I NEED to be messing with this stuff? The fish were in there for over a week, and there seemed to be no problems. I just don't want to start messing with parameters and stuff, cuz once you do things can start getting crazy.

I'm hoping it was just a freak thing, and it won't happen again. I'm going to give them another try, hopefully nothing will happen again.

I just want your suggestions. Should I add some sort of SeaSalt, Gravel, or Substrate to bring up the Hardness, or should I just leave it all alone?

 

[kj23502]

I guess the question I should really be asking is, do I NEED to be messing with this stuff? The fish were in there for over a week, and there seemed to be no problems. I just don't want to start messing with parameters and stuff, cuz once you do things can start getting crazy.

I'm hoping it was just a freak thing, and it won't happen again. I'm going to give them another try, hopefully nothing will happen again.

I just want your suggestions. Should I add some sort of SeaSalt, Gravel, or Substrate to bring up the Hardness, or should I just leave it all alone?

IMHO I've read and been told that they will bring out their true nature when their surroundings are how they're supposed to be. Historically they've been living with those water parameters in the rift lakes for a long time. It also depends on if the fish is wild caught and how far away it is *how far down the gentic line* from the wild caught one. It it'll be interesting to see all the opinions there will be on here! I'm replicating the natural habitat for them.

 

[Colin_T]

I guess the question I should really be asking is, do I NEED to be messing with this stuff?

I just want your suggestions. Should I add some sort of SeaSalt, Gravel, or Substrate to bring up the Hardness, or should I just leave it all alone?

If you want to keep rift lake cichlids in a natural environments then yes you should try to replicate their natural water parameters.
Possibly the best thing to do would be contact the breeder and ask them if they had hard alkaline water for the fish. If they say yes, then you should increase the hardness of your water.

Don't use seasalt for rift lake cichlids because it has too much salt (sodium chloride) in it. The African Rift lakes don't have a lot of sodium chloride in them, but do have lots of calcium and magnesium. If you are going to increase the hardness use a specific rift lake conditioner.

 

[dthoffsett]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

I have to disagree about dechlorination problems when adding while filling. I use a python and have been doing water changes for over 2 years now and I always add the water conditioner while filling the tanks and have never had a problem. And I occasionally do 50-70% water changes. I'm certainly not alone in this, there are quite a few larger tank owners who do the same. And water volume doesn't make a difference as I use the python on my 10 & 29gal as well.

There is a chance your fish could have caught a particulary virulent bacterial infection, have a read through one of my old threads where I had a similar problem. I lost around 13 fish in less than 24hours w/few symptoms, and excellent water quality.

[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/149463/Cichlids-Are-Dropping-Like-Flies-/"]http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/14...ng-Like-Flies-/[/URL]

And for a homemade buffer recipe check out this link, much cheaper than buying it.

[URL="http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php"]http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php[/URL]

Most rift lake conditioners will raise the PH to anywhere between 8.5 & 9.0. This is to match the water conditions in the rift lakes of Africa that have a high PH. They won't make your water go much (if any) higher than it already is.

Actually Lake Malawi's PH is 7.8 - 8.6 w/a total hardness of 4.0 - 6.0dH.

 

[Colin_T]

a lot of people do get away with doing big water changes and adding dechlorinator after the tap water has been added. I used to do it for years and most petshops do the same thing. But every so often someone loses a tank full of fish straight after doing a water change. The water corp sometimes increases the chlorine levels and you change a little bit more water than normal, and bang dead fish everywhere.
The safest thing to do is dechlorinate the water before it goes into the tank. Then you don't have to think, well was it the water change that did the damage. You know it was free of chlorine so that removes a potential factor.

The hardness you state for Lake Malawi seems a bit low. 4-6dH is less than 120ppm. The Amazon has water that soft. I thought Lake Malawi was around 300ppm (about 16dH).

 

[dthoffsett]

a lot of people do get away with doing big water changes and adding dechlorinator after the tap water has been added. I used to do it for years and most petshops do the same thing. But every so often someone loses a tank full of fish straight after doing a water change. The water corp sometimes increases the chlorine levels and you change a little bit more water than normal, and bang dead fish everywhere.
The safest thing to do is dechlorinate the water before it goes into the tank. Then you don't have to think, well was it the water change that did the damage. You know it was free of chlorine so that removes a potential factor.

The hardness you state for Lake Malawi seems a bit low. 4-6dH is less than 120ppm. The Amazon has water that soft. I thought Lake Malawi was around 300ppm (about 16dH).

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the dechlorinator , however I'm positive about the hardness. Here are 5 additional websites that all give the same values as cichlid-forum.com.
[URL="http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Malawi"]http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Malawi[/URL]
[URL="http/www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/rift_lakes.html"]http/www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquai...rift_lakes.html[/URL]
[URL="http/www.malawimayhem.com/articles_setup_01.shtml"]http/www.malawimayhem.com/articles_setup_01.shtml[/URL]
[URL="http/www.markstropicalfish.com/freshwater_cichlids1.html"]http/www.markstropicalfish.com/freshwater_cichlids1.html[/URL]
[URL="http/www.answers.com/topic/lake-malawi?cat=travel"]http/www.answers.com/topic/lake-malawi?cat=travel[/URL]

 

[HairyTornado™]

Thanks guys. I got a RiftLake Conditioner, can't remember which brand it was. It said on the side that it will help raise the hardness and make the conditions in the tank favorable for African cichlids without significantly raising the pH. It said you should raise the Hardness with the Conditioner, then buy the Buffer to mess with the KH and the pH. I don't need to mess with that stuff since its already where it needs to be.

I am going to get some of this sand as well though. Hopefully it will help raise the Hardness and make it more stable, so I won't have to add the Conditioner as much.

http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...amp;pcatid=8976

 

[Colin_T]

Hi dthoffset

That's fine to agree to disagree. Just different views on the same subject. We can both put our ideas forward and people can try both and use whichever works for them.

That's quite interesting that Lake Malawi has such a low general hardness considering it has a much higher calcium and sodium content than Lake Tanganyika. Very weird for a Rift Lake. Oh well, learn something everyday
if Hairy Tornado has Malawis then he/she won't have to make the hardness quite so high.

 

[HairyTornado™]

Alright, I checked it out and I got KENT AF CICHLID CICHLID CHEMISTRY. I asked the breeder what his water is like, he said that its basically liquid rock. Pretty hard, but the pH is 7.8. He also said that they would just adjust to what I have and would be just fine. I am still going to bring the hardness up some more though. I've been adding 1.5 teaspoons everyday since Saturday night, so I'm going to check it tomorrow to see where its at. Going to raise it up to at least 200 ppm. I'm confused now as to where its supposed to be. They seem to be breeding fine for the breeder though.

 

[Colin_T]

Lake Malawi water has a hardness of about 120ppm so if you take it up to there or a bit higher it should be fine. If you want to keep Lake Tanganyikan cichlids then make it harder.
The Malawi cichlids will be fine in harder water as well so if you want to take it up to 200ppm that shouldn't be an issue. If you are aiming for a pure Lake Malawi tank then have the GH at about 120ppm.

 

[HairyTornado™]

120 ppm is between Very Soft and Soft on my test kit. Thats odd. Hmm, alright. I'm already there I think, between 80 - 120 ppm. I'll check it tonight I guess and see where its at. I would feel more comfortable at 200ppm though, everything will be more stable, plus its closer to the breeders water.

 

[Colin_T]

I know isn't it weird. I always thought Lake Malawi had hard water but according to dthoffsett and the links provided, along with a little further research in my books, it has soft water. Completely bizarre for a rift lake.

If the breeder had hard water and you prefer harder water then make it harder. As you said it will make things, particularly the PH, more stable.