Overstocking To Spread Out Aggression...

[ab420]

I unfortunately got into Cichlids before I knew enough about them... and I listened to the LFS (BIG mistake!!!) So... I have a terrible mix that I am trying to work with, and my GF has already fallen in love with all of them, and doesn't want to get rid of any of them.

My tank (is too small...didn't know any better) is only 38 gallons, 36" long. The LFS told me that a 29 was more than enough for Cichlids (thank God I at least got the 38!!!)

This is what I have in there:
3 Metriaclima Estherae
5 Metriaclima Callanois
1 Labidochromis caeruleus
1 Metriaclima Greshakei

They are all between 2"-3" now and starting to get more aggressive. Currently, there is NO WAY I can get a bigger tank, I physically could not fit it in my house, and I'm not about to move tomake room for a bigger tank....

I have been told that I should raise the numbers in there in order to spread out the aggression, but I don't want to make any more mistakes with this tank.

Water quality has nothing to do with this, I am insane about keeping the tank clean. I gravel vac and change around 25% of the water twice a week. I have 2 filters turning over around 420gph.

I just want to know if adding more fish is a good idea at this point. If I should, what would you suggest I add? Thanks in advance!

 

[adambrum]

You need to be able to sex them if there are to many males thats your biggest problem next i guess the gresheki is the worst offender in there ?.

You ideally need 1 male to at the least 2 females if theres 2 males then they will fight for dominance.

 

[Ferris]

The tank isn't really big enough but as you're stuck with it, lets try and work with it.

I certainly wouldn't add any more fish - 10 adult Mbuna is more than enough for a 38 gal. I know they're not adults yet but that is what you need to base the stocking on given that you can't upgrade at a later date.

Firstly you haven't got any of the really aggressive species, which is good. Labs should really be kept in groups and he/she is likely to get picked on as the least aggressive of the bunch so may eventually have to be re-homed - just keep an eye on things.

The greshakei is likely to be the aggressor - if not now, probably later but the lab aside, the others should be able to cope with that, they are reasonably compatibile.

A clever bit of aquascaping would help, plenty of hiding places will make a big difference with aggression problems - somewhere for a stressed fish to retreat to.

You may be lucky, they may tolerate each other in that space as they grow up together but the real test will be when they are all adults. It's not all doom and gloom but i would certainly invest in a tank divider just in case.

 

[ab420]

You need to be able to sex them if there are to many males thats your biggest problem next i guess the gresheki is the worst offender in there ?.

You ideally need 1 male to at the least 2 females if theres 2 males then they will fight for dominance.

Sexing them is a tough one... I'm not sure if I'm comfortable trying to vent them all...

So far:
I am pretty sure of:

1 Male Metriaclima Estherae
2 Female Metriaclima Estherae
1 Male Metriaclima Grasheki


For the Metriaclima Callainos, I am a bit stumped... do females every get egg spots on Callainos? I hope so, otherwise I think I'm looking at 5 males!!!! However, they were all bought at the same time, and they were all the same size (about 1") Now, 2 of them are a brighter blue and are about 3", while the others are still only 1.5"-2" and have much more subdued coloring. Does this mean I have 2 males and 3 females? It kind of seems that way, but I'm not sure if that's an accurate way of sexing them. I have heard the males have brighter colors and get larger, so by that I think I am correct.... what do you think?

And I have no idea what the yellow lab is, but he doesn't bother anyone, and no one bothers him either, so I'm not all that worried about that just yet...

Where should I go from here?

 

[adambrum]

Which one is causing the trouble.

Female callainos do have egg spots.

 

[ab420]

Which one is causing the trouble.

Female callainos do have egg spots.

I am so relieved to hear the females have spots!!!! I am now about 95% sure I have 3 females and 2 males for the Callainos.

As far as the aggression goes:
Although they all do pick on each other from time to time, my main concern is that they bully up on a single fish a lot. This week, they have decided a female Red Zebra is the target, and they all harrass her. A few weeks ago, it was one of the male Callainos.

The reason I though more fish may help, is sometimes when they chase one fish, they get confused and start chasing someone else, or just lose the fish altogether in the crowd. If I remember correctly, that was the reason for overstocking, so no one fish takes too much abuse. I am pretty sure more fish would help fish escape the other ones...

My main questions are:

Is having more than 10 in this tank too much?

If I get more, what should I get?

 

[ab420]

Oops.. didn't see your post Ferris (not quite sure how I missed it...lol)

If I were to re-home the lab and the Grasheki, what would be a good plan?

I was thinking maybe I could get 2 more Metriaclima Estherae females, then I would have
1m:4F - Metriaclima Estherae
and
2m:3F - Metriaclima Callainos

How does that sound?

 

[Ferris]

Sounds like a very good plan - the lab is certainly the odd one out.

I don't see a massive problem with keeping the Greshakei - someone is going to be the tank boss....it might as well be him.

 

[adambrum]

That would work better just watch out for any cross breeding. You could also add a couple of bristlenose plecs for the algae.

 

[ab420]

At this point in time, there's not much I can too about hybrids without totally changing the stocking. There are plenty of caves in the tank, but none that the big guys can't get into, so fry really won't stand a chance in this tank, and I don't have another to put them in. So... in my tank: hybrids=food... Honestly, I think trying to get the fry out of there would put a ton of stress on the other fish, as I would have to breakdown all the decorations to get at them, and then the other fish would still probably eat them as I tried to get them...

If I witness a spawn and know they are not going to be hybrids... then I may look into trying to set up a small tank for them, but as of right now, I just need to make sure these fish don't beat on eachother!

I really like the Grasheki, so I'm gonna let him stick around, he's actually not even the boss of the tank, it's the male Metriaclima Estherae, and NO ONE has EVER challenged that (at least that I've seen).

I was thinking about getting some BN Plecos, but I'm not too sure how my Cichlids will respond to them...

 

[adambrum]

Sounds like a plan

The b/n should be ok in there.

Only time will tell how the greshekia will get on it all depends on the fish (mine was a terror at 1.5" he ruled a 4ft tank )

 

[ab420]

Thanks for all of your help!

 

[adambrum]

Thats for you ferris, I have no idea what im talking about

 

[ab420]

Thats for you ferris, I have no idea what im talking about

No, it's for you too!

You said which very well maybe, the most important thing to consider in my tank: the sex of the fish! You also mentioned the Gresheki and aggression, after some searching I've learned a lot of people have had trouble with them in the past.

You don't give yourself enough credit!

THANK YOU BOTH!

 

[Ferris]

No, it's for you too!

Quite right - he does know what he's talking about.