orange stuff in filter with sand substrate

[ftbetta]

So I have the same filter that I used to use in my 10G tank with gravel and never had any issues. However, we took everything out and started the tank over again with sand. I cleaned the sand as recommended, and when I put it in the tank there was very minimal clouding. I have cycled the tank and done water changes and with every water change I pull the filter cartridge and shake it around in the old water before I dump it to get rid of a lot of the particulate that has built up.

Since switching to the sand I have been noticing the stuff in the filter is very orange/brown (we used play sand from home depot). The first few times I thought nothing of it, and figured there was just dirt in the sand coming out. But, now even when I stir up the sand in the tank the water clears within a few moments. I've probably "swished out" the filter cartridge a total of three times other than this since we put the sand in (two very quickly after I put the sand in, one about a week later, and then just recently) and so I'm questioning if its still dirt coming out through the filter that is orange/brown or if its some sort of bacteria or something that was in the sand.

No fish in the tank yet, planning on trying a few live plants, but so far only sand water and one of those grab and go moss balls in the tank. So should I be worried about the orange-ish stuff in the filter, or is that normal?

 

[Byron]

Play sand is difficult to thoroughly clean of all the very fine particles and dirt; I have it in all my 8 tanks now, and really like it.. I assume if it is from Home Depot in NA it is likely the Quikrete Brand; I corresponded with them a while back, and their play sand is the most refined sand of the commercial types, so I would doubt it has anything in it other than sand and dirt. The brown accumulation is very fine particulate, so I wouldn't worry about it. Organics also look brown, but with nothing in a new tank I wouldn't expect to see much of this.

Byron.

 

[ftbetta]

Thanks Byron,

I did what I hope is my last water change today as my ammonia and nitrites are at zero, and hopefully this will bring the nitrates all the way down.

However, I do have another concern before I add the fish. My tap water generally tests about at a 6.5, sometimes maaaaaybe a 7. However the water in the tank right now keeps testing barely above a 6 pH, not higher than a 6.5. It is fairly consistent, but 6 is about the very bottom end of what fish can tolerate, right? I am planning on picking up a handful of cory cats, will this pH work for them, or should I try to bring it up just a little bit first?

 

[Byron]

Thanks Byron,

I did what I hope is my last water change today as my ammonia and nitrites are at zero, and hopefully this will bring the nitrates all the way down.

However, I do have another concern before I add the fish. My tap water generally tests about at a 6.5, sometimes maaaaaybe a 7. However the water in the tank right now keeps testing barely above a 6 pH, not higher than a 6.5. It is fairly consistent, but 6 is about the very bottom end of what fish can tolerate, right? I am planning on picking up a handful of cory cats, will this pH work for them, or should I try to bring it up just a little bit first?

This should not be a problem. First though, what is the GH and KH of your tap water? You should be able to find this out from the data on the website of your municipal water authority. No need for a test kit as once you know the numbers, that will likely be all the GH/KH tests necessary (adjusting parameters for the aquarium is another story, but it is always better to select fish suited to your water).

Subject to the GH/KH numbers, and assuming these will indicate soft or very soft water, soft water fish species generally prefer an acidic pH. I know that some of my tanks are at pH 5.0 or lower, as the lowest test I have is 5 and up. Portions of blackwaters in Amazonia are in the 3's and 4's for pH. Some species will thrive in a low pH.

Once we know the GH/KH it will be easier to assess what the pH may do, and make it easy to suggest suitable fish. To briefly, very briefly, explain the relationship: GH is the level of dissolved mineral in the water, the general hardness; this impacts fish significantly in general terms, as the dissolved minerals get inside the fish and in soft water species can block the kidneys, while hard water species need this mineral. KH is the carbonate hardness which also impacts fish though usually not as much, but it also serves as a buffer for pH, preventing fluctuations normally. Factors in the tank also affect GH and pH, such as calcareous rock/substrate (composed of calcium and magnesium rock), or organics (wood, leaves, peat, fish excrement). The pH can vary some, provided it is not fluctuating wildly; there is a normal pH fluctuation in natural waters over each 24 hour period, but it is a few decimal places which is not extreme.

When we have the GH/KH this should fall into place.

Byron.

 

[ftbetta]

Alright, so there are GH and KH tests on the test strips that I use already. The GH normally tests at 120ish, and the KH between the 0 and 30 marks. From the city water report, I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at, it says Hardness and then lists the ppm as 120-124 annually and gpm as 7.0-7.3. Are those the KH and GH? it doesn't list KH or GH anywhere specifically.

However, the water report lists the pH as 7.7-7.8, which even when I have tested the straight tap water here, is not the reading I get. My strips measure the tap water at 6.5-7, and the tank water has been a little lower the past few weeks at 6-6.5. So... am I likely reading or using the strips incorrectly? or is there some difference in some pipe or something somewhere between the plant and our house that is changing the pH before it gets to my sink?

I have the API 5 in 1 test strips that I just recently purchased from Amazon, the expiration date is february of 2019 and Ive always kept the lid shut, dry, and away from direct sunlight. I follow the directions per the side of the tube, which is swirl two times in the water, remove from the water with the pads facing up, and wait 30 seconds for the pH reading. I also make sure to compare to the fresh water scale, not the salt water one.

 

[ftbetta]

although reading through the water report, the nitrates in the water are not zero. There was a week last year where they were above 10 as a violation and throughout the year ranged between .5-10.7. So, if I'm doing water changes with water that has nitrates in it already.... I'm never going to get rid of them (I'm also concerned that I'm drinking them all the time too). Do I need to be using like purchased water (that sounds like a total pain) or is there another way to get rid of them? plants?

 

[Byron]

although reading through the water report, the nitrates in the water are not zero. There was a week last year where they were above 10 as a violation and throughout the year ranged between .5-10.7. So, if I'm doing water changes with water that has nitrates in it already.... I'm never going to get rid of them (I'm also concerned that I'm drinking them all the time too). Do I need to be using like purchased water (that sounds like a total pain) or is there another way to get rid of them? plants?

I'll respond to this post first, as it is less involved. I wouldn't worry much about nitrates if it is 5 to 10, though it does mean being careful not to increase nitrate within the aquarium. And to do this live plants will help, as will keeping the fish load moderate (in numbers, but also size of the fish species, and having compatible community fish). That is fairly straight forward. My tanks average 0-5 ppm nitrate (with no nitrate in the tap water), so this on top of the tap water 5 or even 10 is not that bad.

Having said that, some members here have dealt with high nitrate in the tap water, and they may comment on ways to deal with this other than purchased water. AbbeysDad is one member that has this issue, and he will readily help you if he sees this thread. You could PM him.

Byron.

 

[Byron]

Alright, so there are GH and KH tests on the test strips that I use already. The GH normally tests at 120ish, and the KH between the 0 and 30 marks. From the city water report, I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at, it says Hardness and then lists the ppm as 120-124 annually and gpm as 7.0-7.3. Are those the KH and GH? it doesn't list KH or GH anywhere specifically.

However, the water report lists the pH as 7.7-7.8, which even when I have tested the straight tap water here, is not the reading I get. My strips measure the tap water at 6.5-7, and the tank water has been a little lower the past few weeks at 6-6.5. So... am I likely reading or using the strips incorrectly? or is there some difference in some pipe or something somewhere between the plant and our house that is changing the pH before it gets to my sink?

I have the API 5 in 1 test strips that I just recently purchased from Amazon, the expiration date is february of 2019 and Ive always kept the lid shut, dry, and away from direct sunlight. I follow the directions per the side of the tube, which is swirl two times in the water, remove from the water with the pads facing up, and wait 30 seconds for the pH reading. I also make sure to compare to the fresh water scale, not the salt water one.

"Hardness" is most likely GH (general hardness, total hardness), and 120-124 corresponds with your test strip 120 ppm (I assume the test strip is using ppm units, and not degrees, as 120 degrees would be liquid rock).

Not sure what gpm is...do they explain the units somewhere? KH on your test strips at 1 to 30 is again probably ppm. When GH is low the KH usually is similar, though not always, but we don't need to get that involved. The GH indicates soft water, around 6-7 dGH, so that is good for soft water fish (avoid hard water fish like all livebearers, rift lake cichlids, some others). The KH is probably low correspondingly, so tells us about the pH.

On the pH...when testing tap water for pH you need to outgas the CO2. Water travelling along the pipes can assimilate CO2 and this produces carbonic acid which lowers pH. Letting a glass of tap water sit 24 hours will out-gas the CO2, or you can usually agitate a jar of tap water very vigorously for a few moments. Test after, and that will be more accurate. The pH may be higher than your previous tap water tests, close to the indicated 7.7 or thereabouts.

Now, in the aquarium, with the KH not providing much buffering, the pH will naturally lower from the dissolved organics. This is where regular (weekly) partial water changes help; a 50% change every week will work to keep the pH stable and not allow it to lower too much or too quickly. I have very soft water, with a tap pH of 7. Some of my tanks run in the mid 6's, some at 5, some probably much lower (can't test below 5). I just watch which fish species I put in each tank. My Black Ruby Barbs do not like it too acidic, so they are in the mid 6's, whereas my wild caught cardinals and pencils are much lower.

Something else to look into, is if the water authority adds anything to raise the pH. I have this issue, as the pH of our very soft water is normally at or below 5. They add soda ash to raise it to 7, to prevent corrosion of the pipes from acidic water. This does dissipate out and I have never had the pH in an aquarium rise more than a coujple decimal points after a major 60% water change (say, from 6.4 to 6.5 or 6.6). See if they do, as that might explain the higher pH and the faster lowering in the aquarium.

You might want to save up for a liquid test kit; some prefer their reliability over strips. The API Master Combo has tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate which are all you really need. I never test ammonia or nitrite and haven';t for years, except if there is an obvious problem then I do these as a first step (have to keep a current test kit on hand, though, they do expire over years). I check pH sporadically, probably every 3 months or so, all the tanks just before the water change one week; in years this has never varied by more than a decimal place or two, so I have stable water chemistry. Nitrates I also rarely test, except in one tank that has an organics issue; in the others they have been less than 5 for more than 20 years.

Byron.