One Of My Loaches Doesn't Look Great :(

[shrimply]

So I recently got 7 polka-dot loaches which I quarentined for around 4 weeks, during this time they had, and were treated for ich, and I also treated with flubenzadole to ensure there were no internal parasites or flukes.
There was no signs of disease, a couple of them were showing flashing behvaiour but this appeared to be after water changes and I put it down to that, given they are were all healthy, active and eating and showed no exterior signs of disease or infection.
 
A week ago yesterday they were put into my main tank, water parameters have been fine and they are settled in and were all active and eating and still no signs of any problems.  Yesterday I did a 50% water change as I do weekly.  Today one of the loaches is showing rapid gill movements, I should note that this is not an individual I have ever observed flashing.  It is the only one showing any symptoms, none of the other fish in the tank seem in any way effected.
 
 
Readings today
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - ~20ppm
 
There is plenty surface agitation, much more than I usually have.  The only thing I think it could be is a bacterial gill infection but I'm not sure that totally adds up.  Any thoughts?

 

[shrimply]

Scratch that - it is flashing.  I've also noticed my plecs flashing a couple of times since I introduced the loaches which is concerning now I think about it.  I can't see how it could be flukes or anything since they've been treated and there is no visible inflammation of the gills or anything  Hate not knowing what I'm dealing with and I'm really worried.
 
I've ordered some eSHA 2000 as that seems the only logical option but if you guys have any other thoughts please speak up.

 

[shrimply]

Anyone? He's looking the same today, my medication hasn't arrived yet.
 
I'm very worried about the little guy, if anyone has any idea what could be going on I'd be very grateful.

 

[shrimply]

There are at least two of them breathing very rapidly now, but I can't find anything sensible that explains this behaviour along with some flashing without other visible symptoms. I'm worried

 

[star4]

The only thing that would spring to mind would be gill flukes, but I would have thought these would have been eradicated when you treated them for internal parasites. It might be worth another dose just in case like some ich medications it only works on one stage of the parasites cycle and they have become re-infected. But that is only guessing.
 
Another guess would be has the temperature raised with the warm weather? have you enough surface aggitation/air going into the tank. It might be worth dropping an airline in and seeing how they are after 1/2 an hour or so. If their breathing returns to normal then no worries.

 

[shrimply]

Thanks Star, the Flubenzadole should treat flukes and all protezoen parasites in one treatment, it targets all stages of the lifecycle.  And I treated with it twice.  And if they'd had gill flukes for this long everything I read suggests there should be inflammation and redenning etc of the gills, there isn't anything they are just rapidly breathing, a bit less active than normal and flashing occasionally.  It isn't looking good at all, and this rapid breathing wasn't observed during their quarentine.
 
I keep the tank temperature cool, 24C and we live in an old stone cottage so there really aren't temperature fluctuations from this, the tank hasn't shifted from 24C other than possible dropping a degree or two when I did the water change.
 
I usually have no surface movement on my tank, it's well planted so I keep the CO2 in and let the plants do the oxygenation.  They've been happily like this for a week before the problems started, I know have the spray bar creating waves across the surface and have for 48 hours, so if it was an oxygen shortage I'd have expected an improvement by now.
 
I'm feeling pretty down about it, I've become quite attatched the the little guys and really don't know what to do for the best now.  I have got a bottle of sterazin sitting so I could use that, I feel though maybe a bacterial treatment first might be the best way to cover all my bases giving that in THEORY, they shouldn't still have flukes or anything.

 

[star4]

I remember we discussed you treating them in quarantine, I should have re-read that thread. I agree in theory then with having two treatments they should be clear of all parasites, if it was just a single treatment then a second maybe befificial, but it they have had two already a third would be overkill. My theory of temperature that is out the window too.
 
The only other thing I can think of is they did have some intestinal worms and treating with Flubenzadole has dealt with them, but there maybe decaying worms trapped in the gut = bacterial problem. This would explain why they are not as active, but not really the heavy breathing and flicking - which has me at a bit of a loss.
 
I agree with you saying you should try an antibacterial med, maybe an extra water change or two until it arrives.
 
Sorry I am not much help, I am a bit baffled.

 

[shrimply]

Thanks for the thoughts, Nah, I'm baffled too. 
I haven't been able to spot many of them this morning so I hope they are all still OK.
 
The only thing i can think of is a secondary bacterial infection from parasties, either internal as you say, or gill flukes.  But even then it seems to have taken a very long time to present itself.
 
I can't help feeling there is something I'm missing but have no idea what.

 

[shrimply]

They are all still alive, but I have two showing rapid breathing and less activity - although they did both come out for a feed.  Oddly these two seem to be brighter while the other 5 who are breathing and behaving normally seem faded compared to usual - I really have no idea what is going on.  They did all feed though.
 
I'm a bit nervous about doing another water change since that was what possibly brought on the symptoms in the first place - though I can't see how it could give it's 2/7. 

 

[star4]

You say this has come on since your last water change? check everything you have used, or just thoroughly rinse it all in hot water as a precaution then before trying another water change just in case, although if it was some contamination possibly all of the fish would be showing signs, but not always.
 
The two that are breathing rapidly, do they stay together away from the rest of the group? I am wondering if it is a bullying issue that could be causing it.
 
This is really hard trying to help sorry I am not much use other than throwing idea's at you. I still cannot see it being flukes not after being treated twice. Your only other option is to try a third time treatment.

 

[shrimply]

Yes, it was the day after the water change that I noticed the symptoms, but I think it's probably a coincidence.
 
The two do seem to stay together, but I haven't observed any signs of bullying or aggression.  It seems unlikely this is the cause given there wasn't anything like this going on when they were in a much smaller and more open quarantine tank, and one of the individuals suffering is probably the biggest of the group.
 
The eSHA 2000 should be here tommorow so I can treat the tank with a course of that.  Although if it's bacterial gill disease which I sort of suspect then everything I've read suggests its probably two late
 
I've been considering separating the two but I'm not sure this would really help, it's likely to stress them out more with me trying to catch them and I need to treat the whole tank anyway in case it's something contagious, this would help eliminate the possibility that it's bullying though.

 

[star4]

The only thing to do is give the esha 2000 a try, it is pretty good stuff, I have used it before a few times when I have been given a sick fish.

 

[shrimply]

Yes I will do so and keep my fingers crossed, that should rule out anything bacterial or fungal.  Having read some more now, I should probably have dosed antibacterials along with the anti-parasite medication to prevent this.  If it is indeed a secondary bacterial infection.
 
Otherwise I'm still going to be scratching my head and worrying.  Would you agree that I'm as well leaving them in the main tank?
 
Thanks for the help.

 

[star4]

Yes leave them in the main tank, if it is bacterial there is a chance (slim) of the others getting infected (depending on how the bacteria spreads etc, without a full culture and identification of the bacteria its better to err on the side of caution) so treat the whole tank.
 
Best of luck.

 

[shrimply]

Well the first dose of eSHa 2000 is in, reading the bottle makes it sounds like a wonder cure for everything... We shall see.
 
I haven't done another water change, I don't know if this is the right decision or not but since water conditioner can interfere with the treatment and I don't the the facilities to leave a worthwhile amount of water siting to let the chlorine gas off I didn't have much option.
 
Currently have everything I used to clean the tank sitting ready to be throughly bleached - ahh the joys of fishkeeping, it's never beeping easy is it haha.
 
Fingers crossed this makes a difference.