One Cichlid Moving Gravel, One's Hiding, Why?

[mandem]

I've posted this to a couple cichlid forums so sorry if you've already seen it. i don't want to wait until it's too late to get good advice. I'm new to cichlids and this past week 2 of them started acting differently. They're from lake malawi but i don't know exactly which species. i've been told by someone they are cynotilapia afra. The tank is established (30 gals) and i've had them in it for probably 2 months. One has dug several deep holes in the gravel and moved the rest against one side of the tank. Another is hiding in a hole in some drift wood and hasn't come out to eat in 4 or 5 days. i'm starting to get worried. Is this mating behavior? Do i need to somehow make sure the second one eats or is this normal? There are 5 others in the tank but their behavior hasn't changed. The gravel mover is larger and more aggressive, i've always assumed it was a male. The one hiding looks somewhat similar but is smaller and less colorful. I've always assumed it was female but don't know for sure. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks. also, one of my yellow labs has lost almost all black coloring in his fins. yellow has faded a bit too... but is still eating and acting normal. does that mean anything? other lab hasn't changed.

 

[dthoffsett]

Hello, I'll try to help you if I can. Moving gravel, this is perfectly normal for mbuna, they dig for spawning pits, territory, or just for the heck of it. If you had sand you'd see it a lot more. As for the one hiding, it is most like being bullied and is stressed and hiding. Unfortunately, 30 gallons is entirely too small for mbuna, you need to upgrade to 55gal or more as soon as possible, or rehome the fish. The one that is hiding can and will likely die from stress. Most likely the fading colors on your labs are from stress as well. Exactly how many fish and what species do you have in your tank?

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it sounds like your fish are starting to hit sexual maturity and you are about to have a blood bath.

Hope I helped.

 

[freerunner416]

Hiya i have convicts and jelly been parrots and they shift the stones all the time. The breeding pair of parrots shift the stones to nest and usually do a few spots before choosing one around a hole/cave. As for the one hiding... just make sure that it moves when your feeding it. I have a couple that hide but come out when being fed. I think sometimes you get quiet fish that like to stay away from the trouble.

Good luck with it and hope they are ok.

c

 

[mandem]

thanks. i haven't seen the smaller one get bullied. all in all they get along fairly well. the tank has lots of (fake) plants, etc and they all have their areas they like to sit in. they're all fairly small. the largest is probalby only 3". the labs probably closer to 2". unfortunately it isn't coming out when i feed it which is why i posted. i use pellets and the others eat everything if i try to leave a couple extra in just in case. unless it can get by on a couple scraps, there's no food left to eat when the lights go out. i'd like to move it for a bit to feed it but if there are eggs or something involved i'm afraid i will do more harm than good. can they really starve themselves to death? seems like instinct wouldn't let that happen. i don't see how i can upload a local picture or i'd attach one.

 

[dthoffsett]

Unfortunately, just because you don't see it being bullied doesn't mean it isn't. The only other think I can think of is maybe its a holding female. Does it look like the chin is bulging and the fish looks like it is constantly chewing. If the fish is holding, she won't eat for up to 4-5 weeks.

No matter what the problem you need to address the size of the tank. With the largest being 3" they are still sub-adults and are hitting sexual maturity. Mbuna can get along great as juvies, but all bets are off as adults, they can litteraly being swimming next to each other one day, and killing each other the next.

 

[mandem]

Thanks. are there any rules of thumb to determine the correct tank size? we went to a respected local tropical fish store, not some petsmart-type chain and talked to them about which and how many fish we could put into it. they said we should slightly overstock it to keep them from getting too territorial. otherwise they would be even more aggressive to each other. they said this way they there's enough activity that they see everything and can't single out one to pick on more. they also said we could use 1" of full grown fish per gallon. in 30 gals with 7 total fish, eventually roughly 4 - 5" (do they get bigger than this?) long i thought we'd be fine. they're only half that size now. to clarify, i'm not trying to argue, just trying to learn. i haven't looked closely enough to see if it's chewing. i'll look tonight. thanks.

Unfortunately, just because you don't see it being bullied doesn't mean it isn't. The only other think I can think of is maybe its a holding female. Does it look like the chin is bulging and the fish looks like it is constantly chewing. If the fish is holding, she won't eat for up to 4-5 weeks.

No matter what the problem you need to address the size of the tank. With the largest being 3" they are still sub-adults and are hitting sexual maturity. Mbuna can get along great as juvies, but all bets are off as adults, they can litteraly being swimming next to each other one day, and killing each other the next.

 

[dthoffsett]

I always enjoy helping where I can. Unfortunately, with mbuna you can't go by the 1" per gallon rule as it doesn't take into consideration aggression and need for territory. The smallest tank I would recommend would be a 4ft (55gal). 3ft (30gal) isn't long enough for all of the fish to establish territories, and isn't long enough for any fish that are getting picked on to run. In a 55gal you could have 12 mbuna total, and obviously the bigger you go the more you can fit. Here are a few links to articles to check out, and a link to members tanks for ideas.

http/www.fishforums.net/Members-African-...ks-t169788.html
http/www.fishforums.net/The-Mbuna-Aquarium-t27706.html
http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/lake_malawi_setup.php


If you have any more questions be sure to ask.

 

[mandem]

thanks! those pictures are great. i'm a bit confused though. proportionately isn't doubling the number of fish in a tank that's twice as big the same? it seems like even using the length as a guide, the linear inches per fish is still about the same. granted the total length is longer but if they're territorial won't that just mean they'd be swimming through more territories and in turn get chased by even more fish? my 30 gal is almost 3'. if a 55 gal is only 4' i gain 12" but 5 more fish can be happy in that extra space? most of mine seem to stay near the bottom. i guess the decorations could change this though. many of those pictures you showed were half full of large rocks taking up space. i don't have any of those. so they have more space. unfortunately i didn't do enough research before setting it up. i'll have to rethink my setup now.

 

[dthoffsett]

Actually, I've found that the extra foot makes a huge difference. IME a fish will chase another for about 3.5 feet and then give up. Strange, but it usually works that way. The 4ft is a little deeper as well which helps. The reason we all have tons of rocks, is that the fish set up their territories in crannys and caves. In pictures of Lake Malawi you can't even see the bottom, it's just tons of boulders everywhere. So while they need some open space, rocks are a very important part of the set up. And with lots of caves, a fish that is being chased can duck in and out and lose the aggressor.

Here are some great pics of Lake Malawi.

http/images.google.com/images?svnum=10&a...ter+Lake+Malawi