Okay Not Sure (discuss)

[theshadowinc]

Well the story goes like this Got 2 Discuss from a local breeder today out of his community tank really nice and pretty. He gave me detailed instructions to follow when acclamating them. So followed it with no problems we also baught one from a local fish store a blue one not sure of the name. Well we did the same thing with the blue one to acclimate it. The fish have been acclimating for over 4 hours ea in total put them in the community tank and all play shy which I understand its new. About 30 Mins later the 2 from the local breeder is coming out and venturing and eating its a good sign

But now the one from the store Turned Black ftw. Okay not a bid issue its stressed understandable but its at the back of the tank and dosn't want to come out to play wondering if anyone knows why they are all Juv. All where introduced at the same time. Its a planted tank well established. Is there any reason why just the one is black and hiding in the back is it a bad one from a store <- This is why I don't like buying from stores!

I tested the water from the store and omg 3ppm of Amonia and 10ppm of nitrite omfg are you kidding me! Person water from town said he needed to to a water change but tested his water and only 0ppm Amo, .25ppm of Nitrite ~ We wont go into the Nitrate I already realized the state of the fish store water. I have noticed for the last hour the blue guy has gotten a little blue back and the black on him isn't as dark but still hiding in the back ~ Now with me saying this it is 160watts of light over 55gal ~
(About acclimation I had a heater in the water when i was doing it to maintain the temp of the water and dripping in water from my main tank somewhere I forgot to mention that)
The 2 from our local breeder was way more cheaper and they actually are showing better colour in our tank than his. The one from the pet store is well hmm I don't know what to think about it any help from a Discuss lover would be appreciated, I am not sure what to think I am trying to monitor it but its hiding in the back behind my drift wood behind and inbetween plants the 2 from the local breeder has eaten already but the one from the LFS is not eating at all Help would be appreciated plz thanks.

More Detail to make the help better I hope

Tempatures they are coming from

LFS 86F Stick on side
Breeder 86F Uses in water tester
Going into 83.5F I am using a digital therm

My water change is tomorrow EI dosage

Test results from
LFS 3 Ammo, 10 Nitrite
Breeder 0 Ammo, .25 Nitrite
Me 0 ammo, 0 Nitrite, 15 Nitrates Sorry I know why the nitrites are high only cause plants >< and EI dosage

Food
LFS ~ Brine Shrimp, Blood Worms, Flake food, Tetris bites >< (Dry food)
Breeder ~ Brine Shrimp Frozen, Blood Worms Frozen, TetraBites ~ (Stopped Feeding them beefheart to messy for his planted tank)
ME (I feed all my fish this stuff) Brine Shrimp Frozen (Also have Dry), Blood Worms Frozen(Also have dried), TetraBites. (Looking into BeefHeart) [BBS Hatched ]


Well since typing this lOl the blue dude has come out just waiting on colour and see if he eats help plz if you have good suggetions ty.

 

[WILDER]

I would just take a look here to rule it out.
Black patches can be ammonia burns that are healing.
As the fish turned completely black.


Discus Plague



Symptoms:

This disease is most often observed in discus, angels, uarus, severums and oscars. Fishes infected with Discus Plague will lose their natural coloring, turn dark, and become reclusive, huddling together in a dark corner of the tank. Heavy mucus secretions on the skin, accompanied by severe fin rot, scratching or rubbing against objects in the aquarium, and rapid breathing are also characteristic symptoms of Discus Plague. Upon close examination, the fins of sick fish may exhibit clear, non-pigmented areas where the tissue appears have dissolved. The mucus layer will also appear streaky where the fish has been rubbing against objects. Even though infected fishes appear to be very sick, they continue to eat, although sparingly. When feeding, they move in a tight school to the food, and retreat together to a dark corner. Some fish may even lie horizontally on the top or bottom of the tank, trying to hide in the merest shadow!



Cause:

Due to a bacterial infestation from any or all of the following bacteria: Hexamitiases, Pseudomonas, Streptococcus, Chondrococcus columnares and Aeromonas. This disease is typically introduced into an aquarium by a new fish, plants, decorations, or live food. The carrier is usually not a sick fish, but rather a healthy fish or plant from a tank which harbored the disease in the past. Fish will begin to display the symptoms described above within 3 to 5 days after exposure. Mature adult fish appear to suffer the most severe symptoms, often dying within the first few days of the disease.



Treatment:

Effective medications include the antibiotics Chloramphenicol, Tetracycline, Oxytetracycline or Gentomycin. These will quickly arrest the fin deterioration as well as reduce the mucous production on the skin. These drugs will not, however, cause sick fish to immediately regain their natural color or cease any "huddling" behavior. Within 7-21 days, however, these symptoms vanish and your fish will reappear at the front of the tank, looking for food.

Concurrent treatment with oxidizing agents, like Potassium Permanganate, will help to keep the bacterial count down (which will aid your fish in its natural fight against the infestation). Controlling the temperature of your aquarium has also proven to be effective in the treatment of Discus Plague. Try to keep the temperature of your aquarium or hospital tank in the 85-90 F range, if your fish can handle it. A low pH (5.5 - 6.5) may also prove helpful as some bacterial species are not able to withstand an acidic environment.

 

[theshadowinc]

You pointed one thing out there wow I never realized the PH value >< well my water is 7.6 and person I got from was about the same 7.2 the LFS I have no Idea! Well since posting the colour of clack seemed to go away but now a white colour and almost back to the colour at the lfs it was and its still not eating, It hiding at the back of the tank it freaked me out I thaught I introduced what you mentioned above Plague! I have seen this before In Anglefish but never in discuss hmm, what are the diferences between angle and discuss in having this cause if its the same as angles when they have it, well I identified it as not that! Still monitory it seemed to come out of hiding for feeding time but not sure if it eaten anything yet they are massive pigs the other 2 lol. Well I will continue to monitor.

the local fish store I wonder if they used a water buffer >< one thing i never tested was the ph damn it! Well I know the other 2 are doing very well and already trying to coach the other one out soo time will tell. Our local water is 8.5 hardness so we use CO2 here to control the ph lvls. Not only that the breeder held onto the fish for a week for me what a nice fella he knew my situation with the running cycled part so agreed he could wait to sell them and even wanted me to bring tank water with me lol. Well I did and he didn't even test it lol. Said to me you know what you are doing you should be okay.

I am thinking its stress from moving from the fish store into quartine to adjust and then into the tank!

I will keep all informed and Hope its not Plague time will tell if it is!

 

[WILDER]

Ok that's good if the colour coming back.
I doubt it ph if you climatised the fish for 4 hours.
I would just leave him to settle for now and see how he goes.
Fish can hide when stressed. Also fish tend not to eat when stressed.
Just wanted to rule discus plague out.
Yes I would think its the same an angels having discus plague.
I'm tired so off to bed now.

 

[theshadowinc]

Ok that's good if the colour coming back.
I doubt it ph if you climatised the fish for 4 hours.
I would just leave him to settle for now and see how he goes.
Fish can hide when stressed. Also fish tend not to eat when stressed.
Just wanted to rule discus plague out.
Yes I would think its the same an angels having discus plague.
I'm tired so off to bed now.

Its lights out for the fishies so maybe that will help it adjust the other 2 are doing very well
Never knew they tend not to eat when stressed I know I have had stressed fish before from the lfs and they eat probably cause they are not feed good there. I have only ever seen it once with angles I had a very expensive breeding pair and I dentified it coming from a plant that was new in the aquarium >< who would think to qaurtine plants! (Came from a LFS planted tank a really nice sword went back the next day and there show tank was covered with it ><) So lesson there was I now know what it looks like on angles if its the same as discuss I can rule that out easy

The longer I can Acclimate a fish I think its better on them! Always have had good luck doing it for 4hours but discuss is a new area for me. Kinda the same as angles. (Heater in the bucket drip put water from main tank into bucket to fill bucket half way, then drip the rest in till bucket full and let sit for total of 4 hours usually they come out with no stress always have a blanket over it so they are in the dark)
I guess more less it scared me come morning time I will give update on how it goes
LFS $44.99 for the one
Breeder 2 for $25.00
I guess you can see why it scared me lol
see ya all in the morning

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Ammo/nitrite and such was probably caused by them being in the bags for such a long time.



Get a quarantine tank. This is essential for things like this.


83.5F should be alright.


The fishes color coming back indicates I may have just been stress from moving. You acclimated him very slowly which would mean a slow change in pH which is fine. It can take a while before fish are back to themselves after a move. I am surprised they have already ate.

If he is still not eating after 3-4 days then he will need to be quarantined as not eating could be signs of internal bacterial/parasitic diseases.

 

[petertr]

Discus go dark when stressed. I wouldn't worry too much, yet.

Keep your water spot on and the temp around 30C and things should pick up.


Someone else will be along soon to suggest better things than me

 

[rabbut]

A possible reason why your store bought Discus suffered more stress is that it was probibly farm bred. Discus for the trade are usualy raised in groups of 50+ in large tanks with daily waterchanges. They then get moved to the LFS and then onto a home tank with usualy 5 fish. This stresses them as they are used to the security of numbers in a large group, and being left alone in one very quiet place. Fish raised by a breeder in a communal tank are used to small groups and hence aren't as upset by the low group numbers, and will also have plenty of activity arround their tank.

All sounds like usual Discus newly introduced to me

The minimum group for Discus is 5. The store bought one is in for a stuffing from the other two farily soon if you don't up their numbers. The others sound to be settleing fast and will soon start fighting over heirachyal position. The stressed one will quickly become the runt an bullied like crazy by the other two Up the numbers and the bullying will be spread more evenly. Also, the higher group numbers will calm the store-bought Discus, bringing it out of the strop a tad faster and make it more eager to fight back

I tend to aclimate as fast as possible, unless there is a major KH or temperature difference. Acclimation is realy stressful for any fish, so the less time you acclimate for the better realy. Local bought fish from work or other local shop float in their bags for 20mins and then get let loose. Whenever I've tried longer acclimations, I've always had issues.

All the best
Rabbut

 

[theshadowinc]

Well good news must have just been new fishy syndrome. I think it was just stressed after lights out last night I never bothered with them and decided I would see what would happen overnight, woke up looked at the tank and they are out and about all in a group together woot! Not only that but they are all eating to

Ammo/nitrite and such was probably caused by them being in the bags for such a long time

They where only in the bag for about 5mins at max the lfs is just down the street from me. Why would ammo, nitrite be that quick in climbing people ship overnight and get water like this but this was 5mins and I don't know If I could say its actually kinda accurate.

Get a quarantine tank. This is essential for things like this.

I do have one and thaught I was going to have to set it up

I am surprised they have already ate.

Must mean good quality fish

The minimum group for Discus is 5

I have been told they can also do okay in trio but if to much aggression to one then 2-3 more need to be added ~ so far not alot of aggression between them all they just swim together in a school but I will be keeping an eye out

 

[rabbut]

The minimum group for Discus is 5

I have been told they can also do okay in trio but if to much aggression to one then 2-3 more need to be added ~ so far not alot of aggression between them all they just swim together in a school but I will be keeping an eye out

Was it the LFS that told you that, or the local breeder? Both should know better A trio is asking for a very expencive blood bath. 4 is absolute minumum, but even that backfires badly on a regular basis. Discus are a teritorial cichlid that need groups to spread the agression. If the group is too small, they will kill eachother one by one untill there is one left that will drop due to stress Adding new fish later "because of high agression" is realy bad advice. The new and stressed fish will automatically be bottom of the pecking order, and will be stopped from eating for several weeks, often going down with stress related diseases after introduction. If they aren't in top condition prior to going in, they may well be starved to death by their established tankmates. I'd strongly surgest upping your numbers now, before they settle and the carm breaks into chaos

All the best
Rabbut

 

[theshadowinc]

The minimum group for Discus is 5

I have been told they can also do okay in trio but if to much aggression to one then 2-3 more need to be added ~ so far not alot of aggression between them all they just swim together in a school but I will be keeping an eye out

Was it the LFS that told you that, or the local breeder? Both should know better A trio is asking for a very expencive blood bath. 4 is absolute minumum, but even that backfires badly on a regular basis. Discus are a teritorial cichlid that need groups to spread the agression. If the group is too small, they will kill eachother one by one untill there is one left that will drop due to stress Adding new fish later "because of high agression" is realy bad advice. The new and stressed fish will automatically be bottom of the pecking order, and will be stopped from eating for several weeks, often going down with stress related diseases after introduction. If they aren't in top condition prior to going in, they may well be starved to death by their established tankmates. I'd strongly surgest upping your numbers now, before they settle and the carm breaks into chaos

All the best
Rabbut

Well to be honest I take no advice from my lfs lol because he said 3 should be okay >< I even said but that is a rude way for a pecking order and there could be issues! I even told them I can't trust what they say! I understand what you mean about spreading the aggresion of the mates, I have seen this kind of behaviour in Angles when pairing off! I am guessing its the same. reco for angles pairing is 5 due to the aggresion! ( I am looking at atleast 2 more and soon) <-- Thaught I would let you know ~
HaHa what the local breeder said to me, said well you are getting 2 from me and you definitly want to look for a 3rd for sure you have to establish a pecking order but I really Highly recomend 5 because I only know of a select few that have actually gotten away with 3 in a school with out a blood bath. He even said you might be lucky depending! He even said if you plain to do sexing of them and pair them off you are better off having 6 of them try and spread the aggresion around! He told me the hardest part will be introducing new discuss with the current ones due to what you have stated but also said look at adding more than just one when you do cause you always have to factor in the aggression method <- This is something I hope to be able to control, he said you are starting off with 3 for me that would be bad my luck ain't that great but said he has had success with 3 when trying to pair off in a seperate bare bottom 55gal he said he did it on purpose for breeding and wanted certain ones to match up. <-- I have no idea what he was getting at there! He told me when adding more to the current 3 due to the behavour because you will be having huge behavour issues add 3 at once and not just 1 because the one would become a target but he has also done 5 in a community 2 paired off and only 3 left in a community tank after <- This is hear say I tend like most to want to see to believe!! His suggestion for my 55gal would be no more than 6 pref 5, lfs of course said up to 11 <- I doubt that 5gal per discuss rule is not worked out there. Breeder said once they are established in your tank after that is easy its getting them established with teritorial grounds!

Currently I am setting up a Hospital for fishies hehe 4 20gal, 2-3 30 gal and 1 55gal for breeding and keeping sick fishies in I might be posting some of the fotage in the DIY section, its something the wife gave me an okay for to do since everything will be in one area

Not only that but with keeping Discuss its probably the best way to help them out! Same with other speicies of fish you can see my gourmis breeding part that almost took a dive due to the leaking tank issue witch i am resealing now as we speak its an old tank and will be setup as a hospital tank till i get this diy thing done >< ~ but for now i have a community tank thats setup as a hospital tank works for now!

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Ammo/nitrite and such was probably caused by them being in the bags for such a long time

They where only in the bag for about 5mins at max the lfs is just down the street from me. Why would ammo, nitrite be that quick in climbing people ship overnight and get water like this but this was 5mins and I don't know If I could say its actually kinda accurate.

The minimum group for Discus is 5

I have been told they can also do okay in trio but if to much aggression to one then 2-3 more need to be added ~ so far not alot of aggression between them all they just swim together in a school but I will be keeping an eye out

I am glad they doing fine now, but what you where told by the LFS was false (as always.) No they don't do so well in a trio, a group of 5 is bare minimum, and it seems you knew that so why wouldn't you do it? You even said yourself you don't trust that LFs so why choose their information over the breeders!? Hope you did your research on these guys.


You said you acclimatised them for four hours, so chances are ammonia may have been produced at that time, but then again, you never know.

 

[theshadowinc]

I am glad they doing fine now, but what you where told by the LFS was false (as always.) No they don't do so well in a trio, a group of 5 is bare minimum, and it seems you knew that so why wouldn't you do it? You even said yourself you don't trust that LFs so why choose their information over the breeders!? Hope you did your research on these guys.

Can't afford anymore this month(actually not really if needed I could get them asap) is why and planed for 3 in the begging I said the same thing to him when he said 11 in a tank my size a 55gal, my breeder told me MAX is 9 and really don't do it go with NO MORE than 6 if possible or you will be into some huge problems later. That when we discussed putting 3 together 1 would not be from him he knew this. Cause he only had 2 of mine We discussed it huge in plans from what I was doing to cycle it how long its been an established tank for what the goals where and what changes its undergoing before the transfer!(He even told me keep a cycled tank seperate Just in case, you ain't in a normal hobby anymore keeping discuss)note:wife over feeds way to much!
Really I am not listening to the LFS at all Like stated above we talked about 3 and he told me it would have to be watched it can be successful and would probably work but if not changes have to be done in a hurry and budget means nothing lol. Is why he still has 2 other juv in his main tank in case they are needed at all this month other thing is when we try to introduce a 3 pack later could be the fun part.

As far as the research goes I will be honest I have researched them for many years but I have been very affraid to attempt them due to there expense and constant care they need. they are not normal fish in keeping well thats not true they are not normal till they are established. There natural enviroment is a little different compared to what we usually keep them in the ph being out in the wild they are 6.5 the breeders where in 7.2 I recall and mine is 7.4 today! I guess a major question for the experts of discuss would be why is it they come from rivers, all rivers have flow no matter what way you look at it, but flow in a tank they apperently dont' like... I guess that more of a science question.

But really reading all this needed 5 just scares me even more >< so you get 5 1 dies you need to get another quick ><

Well they are doing way better now I guess the major worry about moving them is over, they eat like pigs thats for sure they where out eating today a few time feeding them about 3-4 times a day! No aggression today we need to see what tomorrow brings!

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

I am glad they doing fine now, but what you where told by the LFS was false (as always.) No they don't do so well in a trio, a group of 5 is bare minimum, and it seems you knew that so why wouldn't you do it? You even said yourself you don't trust that LFs so why choose their information over the breeders!? Hope you did your research on these guys.

Can't afford anymore this month(actually not really if needed I could get them asap) is why and planed for 3 in the begging I said the same thing to him when he said 11 in a tank my size a 55gal, my breeder told me MAX is 9 and really don't do it go with NO MORE than 6 if possible or you will be into some huge problems later. That when we discussed putting 3 together 1 would not be from him he knew this. Cause he only had 2 of mine We discussed it huge in plans from what I was doing to cycle it how long its been an established tank for what the goals where and what changes its undergoing before the transfer!(He even told me keep a cycled tank seperate Just in case, you ain't in a normal hobby anymore keeping discuss)note:wife over feeds way to much!
Really I am not listening to the LFS at all Like stated above we talked about 3 and he told me it would have to be watched it can be successful and would probably work but if not changes have to be done in a hurry and budget means nothing lol. Is why he still has 2 other juv in his main tank in case they are needed at all this month other thing is when we try to introduce a 3 pack later could be the fun part.

As far as the research goes I will be honest I have researched them for many years but I have been very affraid to attempt them due to there expense and constant care they need. they are not normal fish in keeping well thats not true they are not normal till they are established. There natural enviroment is a little different compared to what we usually keep them in the ph being out in the wild they are 6.5 the breeders where in 7.2 I recall and mine is 7.4 today! I guess a major question for the experts of discuss would be why is it they come from rivers, all rivers have flow no matter what way you look at it, but flow in a tank they apperently dont' like... I guess that more of a science question.

But really reading all this needed 5 just scares me even more >< so you get 5 1 dies you need to get another quick ><

Well they are doing way better now I guess the major worry about moving them is over, they eat like pigs thats for sure they where out eating today a few time feeding them about 3-4 times a day! No aggression today we need to see what tomorrow brings!

Fair enough, glad you researched and are following the breeders instructions.


Discus can come from different rivers, but most of them are very deep and slow moving. Honestly, most Discus keepers say that have no problems with current. I have heavy current but only in some parts of the tank and the Discus don't seem to mind. They usually chill where the current is slower (until they see me then they are running ragged around the tank looking for food )

 

[petertr]

Discus can come from different rivers, but most of them are very deep and slow moving. Honestly, most Discus keepers say that have no problems with current. I have heavy current but only in some parts of the tank and the Discus don't seem to mind. They usually chill where the current is slower (until they see me then they are running ragged around the tank looking for food )

I have a FX5 pumping out into a Rio 300 - the current is quite strong, but the discus don't seem to care one jot.

They don't avoid any part of the tank.