Off To The Wrong Start...i Think

[blur411]

Hi, my name is Amber and I'm 90% new to aquariums. I raised Beta's as a kid and bred them...but it seems it was so much different than what I'm trying to do now. I just moved to Southern California from Ohio and I thought "a fish tank would like nice here" so my boyfriend bought me a 55 gallon tank and stand used on Craigslist (appears to be in excellent condition). I started off as I assumed I should, just from what I did as a kid. I cleaned all the rocks (boiled them all, took awhile) then I scrubbed the tank with water and a rag...and rinsed well. Placed the clean rocks in, then filled with tap water, began the filter, added the heater, a thermometer and clean decorations. I let it sit over night, while the two fish that came with the tank (picasimus and gold gourami), sat in a bowl of their old water with a bubbler. So today, I went to the pet store and bought water conditioner, stress coat, more tubing for a bubbler, food for the picasimus, 5 guppies (which now that I'm doing more research..I think I probably shouldn't have). The pet store said the Gourami wont do well with the guppies, and that I should give that one away if I want the Guppies. I also bought a PH test kit and PH up and down. I tested the water and it was too high, so I kept adding the down...re-testing 5 minutes later (the box doesn't say when to retest). I did this like 3 times, and it is still too high, and I'm not sure if I'm doing things right. I have the fish sitting in the water in their bags, with some tank water in it now...waiting to introduce them. I feel like I've already messed up, and these fish are going to suffer because of it. Any advice on what I can do to correct things, or lessen the chance of them dying? Is my PH reading correct, how long should I wait to retest after adding the PH down?

Thanks,

Amber

 

[BigbruiserAl]

welcome amber nice to have a fresh face. Ok 1st up you will want to understand about the nitrogen cycle if you dont already

you will be in whats called a fish in cycle which means alot of changing the water everyday to keep the toxin down in the tank, had the tank been empty you could have cyclcd it before livestock then added a bunch of fish. In general you should stay away from messing with your ph as it is really easy to cause a swing and kill the tank. Most fish are fine at any ph as long as its stable thats the most important

Here a few links as i could bore you all day, have a read and let the questions start but have a read 1st

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Briefly, you're now doing a fish-in cycle. That means lots of water changes (at least daily) to keep the toxins down to an acceptable level. To know when to change the water to reduce the toxins you need a test kit (as soon as you can get one), something like the API freshwater master test kit.

You almost certainly do not need to mess with the pH and the pH up and down are essentially unnecessary. Really you need to empty the tank and completely refill it and not add any pH adjusters, unless it really is very high or very low from the tap. You didn't say what your pH was.

 

[Blubble37]

 

[blur411]

I am going to read those articles after this post, thanks for the immediate help. I'm starting to realize I got myself in over my head, seeing as I'm leaving tomorrow for a weekend trip (I will have someone here to watch my dogs and feed the fish, but I doubt they will do my water changes, though I will ask and beg nicely). My PH according the test kit is 7.6 or higher (7.6 is the max it goes to). I only bought this because the lady at the store today said the other test kits are only useful after you have had the tank awhile (I assume now she was wrong) I ordered the "master kit" on amazon and should have it early next week.

 

[AlphaNoob]

Hi Amber.
Your going to have to do a "fish in cycle". There are plenty of resources to tell you how to carry this out. You will definately need a fresh water test kit though (liquid) to test for Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates. And a lot of water conditioner(de-chlorinator) as you will be doing a lot of water changes. If your LFS is friendly they might look after your fish whilst you do a fishless cycle, but if they wont its not the end of the world, it just means a bit more hard work for youself. Goodluck.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

I am going to read those articles after this post, thanks for the immediate help. I'm starting to realize I got myself in over my head, seeing as I'm leaving tomorrow for a weekend trip (I will have someone here to watch my dogs and feed the fish, but I doubt they will do my water changes, though I will ask and beg nicely). My PH according the test kit is 7.6 or higher (7.6 is the max it goes to). I only bought this because the lady at the store today said the other test kits are only useful after you have had the tank awhile (I assume now she was wrong) I ordered the "master kit" on amazon and should have it early next week.

If you don't change the water over the weekend you'll probably return to dead fish, unless you have a very large tank. Do not feed the fish that'll make things worse, they'll survive just fine without for a few days. At the very least do a full change of water just before you leave and overdose with the water treatments. They may just make it then.

To be blunt, the shop lady is an idiot. The kits you need most are the ammonia and nitrite ones (both in the master test kit), pH is the least necessary!

 

[fluttermoth]

If you didn't actually wash the filter in tap water, then you might be lucky and find some of the bacteria have survived.

I wouldn't let your friend feed the fish at all; too much food in an uncycled tank (and we have to assume the worst, and that the beneficial bacteria have died) is a recipe for dead fish Fish can easily go without food for two weeks, so that's nothing to worry about in itself.

Stop using the pH adjusters; most tropical fish can cope with a wide range of pH levels; what does the damage is pH swings, where the value changes very quickly, which is exactly what can happen with the use of those kinds of chemicals. I expect your water is quite hard, and it's very difficult to get hard water to stay at a lower pH.

Make sure you take extra time acclimatising the fish before you let them out of the bags, if you haven't let them go already. Dribble an egg cup-ish of your tank water into the bag every 20 minutes or so until the bag is full, then let them swim out when they're ready.

 

[blur411]

I'm sorry if I sound like a complete idiot, but how do I do a complete water change with fish in there for a 55 gallon tank? I feel like that would just start me over to where I was yesterday. I read the articles about fish in cycling and see where it says to change part of the water daily, I guess I'm just not understanding. Also, I know I never went through all this trouble as a kid with guppies (mostly because I just went to the store bought fish, and added water with treatment and went from there and they always lived. Is it because I'm using a larger tank that this is an issue? I really want to do this right, but I'm already feeling discouraged. I asked the pet store if they could hold on the fish and they said they were not able to do that. Also, since it seems her info was wrong at the store...can I leave the Gourami in there, or do I need to relinquish that one to the store?

 

[AlphaNoob]

Amber.

You need to syphon the water out of the tank with a hose or shop bought syphon. Then replace the water syphoned out, with dechlorinated water at a similer temp to the tank temp.
A couple of buckets with litre/gallon markings on might be helpful too.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

You can put the fish in a bucket for the short time it should take to change all the water or you just leave them in and drain it as much as you can while still leaving enough for them to swim in. You want to return the water to the way it is straight from the tap because as mentioned you almost certainly do not need to mess with the pH. Your 55 gallon tank should be large enough that over the weekend the toxin build up won't be enough to seriously harm or even kill the fish but water changes would definitely help if you can get your friend to do even a smallish amount and also add more water conditioners.

When you get your test kit you'll be able to measure the highly toxic ammonia and nitrite and you'll then understand why water changes are necessary.

Guppies were a lot hardier a couple of decades ago and I guess you were just lucky because these days they'd keel over fairly rapidly.

The gourami may be a bad mix with the guppies but it can be down to the individual personality of the gourami. It would seem you have little choice in the matter though so you'll have to risk it.

Hopefully, as fluttermoth pointed out, your filter may still have some viable bacteria on it and then the situation won't be half as bad as we've painted. But you can't rely on that.

 

[AlphaNoob]

I'm sorry if I sound like a complete idiot, but how do I do a complete water change with fish in there for a 55 gallon tank? I feel like that would just start me over to where I was yesterday. I read the articles about fish in cycling and see where it says to change part of the water daily, I guess I'm just not understanding. Also, I know I never went through all this trouble as a kid with guppies (mostly because I just went to the store bought fish, and added water with treatment and went from there and they always lived. Is it because I'm using a larger tank that this is an issue? I really want to do this right, but I'm already feeling discouraged. I asked the pet store if they could hold on the fish and they said they were not able to do that. Also, since it seems her info was wrong at the store...can I leave the Gourami in there, or do I need to relinquish that one to the store?

Dont feel discouraged. Soon the bug will kick in and you will find yourself Spending more and more time (and money) working on your tank.
Spend a bit of time reading through the Forums and you will soon get a feel for what is needed. PS LFS staff can be hit or miss. Some are great but some dont know a #40## thing. Read the forums it will save you a bit of time and money.

 

[blur411]

Thanks for all the help so far, so I put the fish in the tank around noon here, I leave at 5AM tomorrow morning for work and I'm leaving straight from work for Las Vegas for the weekend. Would you suggest a complete water change around 10PM tonight before I go to bed for the weekend, or a partial one. (Assuming my friend wont do the changes, I know he is going to be pretty busy and is just house sitting as a favor). I understand, there is a high probability things wont go well, just trying my best at this point to prevent it.

 

[BigbruiserAl]

A big tank is easy to keep then a small one for the reason being larger volume of water. What we didt know all those years ago (i include myself in this) was dumping the fish in the tank and them survive was great but the damage due to the burning of their gills from swimming in the ammonia and nitrites made their lives short and were not healthy. It is still posiible to do a fish in cycle and cause minamal strees/damage to your fish however the stress is then put on you as your going to be doing 30-50% water changes a day just save them. Do you know anyone local to you who has a tank up and running for more then 6 months?

 

[blur411]

Unfortunately I don't I have only lived here since November and really only know a few people. I looked on the list of people who are doing tank medium donations, and there is one about 45 minutes from me but she hasn't logged on since early March.