Odd...

[TylerFerretLord]

Like many aquarist newcomers, I was clueless about the nitrogen cycle. After reading up on it, I believe I know enough to know I need to do water changes, feed less and hope to god the 100$ of fish I bought don't die. That's not the reason I made this account.

I have come across a strange occurance. None of the fish have died, even the sensitive once my LFS never told me were bad for beginners(Elephant nose). This is the third day I've had them. They don't even show any signs other than mild lethargy(calico goldfish, danios, mollies, and mickey-mouse platies are fine, along with the irridescent sharks, whom I hope I can find someone who wants them when they grow to large). Is this normal, and how long does it take for ammonia and nitrites to build to dangerous levels?

I'll list my fish and aquarium stuff:

FISH
3 calico rhyuukans (I can't believe how friendly they are, they come right up to my hand)
3 small fish (I have no clue what they are called, mother decided to get them, they are silvery with an orange dot on their sides)
2 irridescent sharks
2 elephant nose
2 striped danios
[2 rainbow sharks
2 plecs, different species, also something mother got
1 bamboo shrimp
2 barbs, different species
1 horsefaced loach

PLANTS
2 random plants that I bought for 3 dollars at Petco

FILTERS
1 average over-the-side filter, eqipped with two carbon bags, a sponge and ammonia reducing stuff, set up when the turtle was in tank
1 under gravel filter
1 in water fluval 1-plus

NOTES
My turtle was in the tank for about a week and a half before he was put into a better tank, filters were in place during that time
Fish are swimming funny, mainly the rainbow sharks, the just suddenly turn on their side and go really fast, rubbing on things
Irridescent sharks have ich, afraid to treat befor cycle is established
I can't return fish, have no one with any cycled filter parts
I don't have a test kit yet, getting tomorrow
I don't have a gravel cleaner, see above

Please help me help my fish!

 

[Amunet]

Are you sure you can't return the fish?
You really should. Some of those are going to get very large.
How big is the tank?

Also, it's not a good idea to mix coldwater fish with tropical.. aka goldfish with the others you have.
If you can't return the fish, you need to either try to find homes for the goldfish, and buy a heater for your tank, or keep the goldfish (depending on how large the tank is)... and getting rid of the others.

As for treating ich. Well since the tank isn't cycled, then you shouldn't worry about killing bacteria. It's only been 3 days so not much if any has built up anyway.
I'd do a large water change. Make sure to dechlorinate it of course, and treat the tank straight away to get rid of the ich.

 

[TylerFerretLord]

Sorry, I don't know the tank size, it was garage sale find. It is certainly at least 3 times bigger than a 10-gallon, size wise. Not sure about gallons, though. I am aquiring a VERY large tank soon(150 gallons!), so it doesn't really matter.

The worker at the LFS said he won't take back fish that have ich. All of his already have it, though. -.-

A few questions:
Why is it a bad idea to mix them? They are doing fine, and have had no health problems (yet).
So I don't need to worry about kill bacteria off? I was adding stress-zyme to the tank weekly, with the turtle.
The worker at the LFS said he won't take back fish that have ich. All of his already have it, though. -.-
If I add Bio-spira to the tank, will it make the cycling faster?
What do elephant nose eat? I read they are nocturnal and like meaty foods, any suggestions?
Last question, any suggestions for ich cures? I live in the US, and I do have a shrimp in the tank I don't wan to die.

 

[Genie]

mix them? as in the goldfish and the tropical?
Mainly cause of the temperature difference that they need. And secondly cause of the large amounts of waste that goldfish produce. Waste, both pee and poo, becomes ammonia. Contributng to the problem you're already going to have with an uncycled tank.

sorry i cant help with your other questions, im sure someone will be along soon

also, if you want your fish ID-ed, take a picture and post it you may need it with the plecos, as a few types turn out to be monster sized (much to my dismay)

 

[MstrLinks]

Regarding Bio-spira many argue that's the only chemical that possibly does speed up the cycle.

As for ich the most common old fashion way to treat them is a salt water bath.

 

[poopsydrew]

Oh sweet mercy, I hope your tank is HUGE!!! we all make mistakes but man no offense you have to change a lot of things. It was a good idea to post here and the members here will continue to help you with your situation. Good luck.

Drew

edit-arent elephant noses 1). Very sensitive 2).Not tolerant of one another
Anyone else that can help?

 

[Amunet]

Well cure the fish of ich and then take them back.
It's not good to mix goldfish with tropical b/c goldfish are coldwater fish while tropical are well.. warm water fish.
And goldfish need very large tanks due to how much waste they produce. I think it's something like.. for the first goldfish it's 20gals, then for every one after that it's 10gal. So for the goldfish you would need a 30gallon tank.
Then along with very messy plecos... and all of the other fish you have, it sounds like you're seriously overstocked.

If you can find a reliable source to get Bio-Spira.. then you could try it but don't hold your breath on it working. Sometimes the places that carry it, the bacteria in the BS is already dead. Or it wasn't kept at the right temp, and so on and so forth.

Your best bet right now is to get rid of the ich and to take the fish back and do a fishless cycle.

I'm not sure how tolerant goldfish are to warmer waters. But a good way to get rid of ich would be to raise the temp in the tank to I think about 85F for a few days. But like I said, not sure how goldfish are in warm waters so I would just find some product that will get rid of the ich, and I repeat.. take those fish back. And while your fishless cycling the tank, research the fish you want so you'll know if they'll be suitable for the tank you have.

 

[TylerFerretLord]

Thanks for the advice.

I'll move the goldfish.

And about the overstocking, I'm getting a 150 gallon in a day or two, do you think they will be OK until then? I plan on returning the irrisescent sharks, I don't want something that gets that big, I planned on having small-fish schools in the 150, with a few eye-pleasers like the elephants.

I repeat, what can I feed them? I currently feed regular tropical flakes, with some color-enhancing grains.

EDIT:

I googled and found that goldfish can tolerate higher temperatures. I'll still move them.

 

[kkyyllee]

that foods fine

 

[TylerFerretLord]

Did more googling, the elephant noses will eat tubifex, bloodworms and mosquito larvae.

Something surprising: They release electrical charges like electric eels. Holy crap. o.o

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Sorry, I don't know the tank size, it was garage sale find. It is certainly at least 3 times bigger than a 10-gallon, size wise. Not sure about gallons, though. I am aquiring a VERY large tank soon(150 gallons!), so it doesn't really matter.

The worker at the LFS said he won't take back fish that have ich. All of his already have it, though. -.-

A few questions:
Why is it a bad idea to mix them? They are doing fine, and have had no health problems (yet).
So I don't need to worry about kill bacteria off? I was adding stress-zyme to the tank weekly, with the turtle.
The worker at the LFS said he won't take back fish that have ich. All of his already have it, though. -.-
If I add Bio-spira to the tank, will it make the cycling faster?
What do elephant nose eat? I read they are nocturnal and like meaty foods, any suggestions?
Last question, any suggestions for ich cures? I live in the US, and I do have a shrimp in the tank I don't wan to die.

no health problems except the ich? lol

sorry that made me laugh, just cos they haven't died yet does not mean there are no health problems, there quite clearly are!

onto serious matters, goldies and trops shouldn't mix because while you can find a temp that they can both survive at, neither of them will thrive. it'll just mean all your fish are living in conditions that are only just about ok, not really suitable, long term their immune systems will be weakened and as soon as some little thing goes wrong in the tank (which happens to all of us, even someone like CFC one of our most respected and experienced members had a wipe out a yr or so ago) your whole stock will be dead because they don't have that fighting chance of getting better. It's a ticking time bomb situation, while it may be fine for weeks, months even years, eventually it will go wrong and in a big way.

if you can find bio spira go for it, but don't buy any other 'bacteria in a bottle' products. the bio spira is the only one in the us that contains the rigth sort of bacteria. it's risky if they are still alive or not but worth the risk IMHO.

The elephant noses feed by rummaging through the substrate for food, so you need to make sure plenty of food gets to the bottom and that there is no competition for it (i.e. no other catfish, loaches etc). They need a very large tank not only because they get to 10" or so but because they need a large area of substrate to rummage through for food. Try things like bloodworms as a good starter food for them. Unfortunately feeding is the biggest issue with these fish, most die in captivity as people can't get enough of the right foods into them.

the best thing you can do to cure the ich is get water quality sorted by getting the cycle finished up quickly with either bio spira or mature media from someone else's filter. with ammonia and nitrite problems that you undoubtedly have you've very little chance of these fish responding well to ich medications.

 

[lilfishie]

post the measurements of you tank in feet,inches whatever, then you must cycle your new tank before adding the fish you have

 

[Lynda B]

Why is it a bad idea to mix them? They are doing fine, and have had no health problems (yet).

You've had them 3 days.... it's a tad too soon to really know whether or not they're doing fine.

Sadly, you were grossly misinformed about how many, and what type, of fish you could have in this community as well as how not to add all your fish at once. I would change stores if I were you. These people should be asking you questions when you buy fish. They shouldn't just sell you whatever you want.

Happily, you came here and will receive wonderful advice and, hopefully, end up with a well-balanced tank with happy and healthy fish.

 

[Genie]

unfortunately it took over a month before i noticed health problems. and its been very downhill for me from then.

They been acting a little odd, but i thought this was purely down to moving from one tank to another.

 

[Rillan]

Ive had my tank since febuary and did a fishcycle and everythings ok. But fishless cycles are better and safer, im gona do a fishless when i get my bigger tank. as for the ich, if the lfs owners fish already have ich then surely thats where you fish got it from. good luck anyway and welcome tff!!