Oak Leaf Litter

[Thedoctor]

http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/approx-100-x-Dried-Oak-Leaves-Vivarium-Chameleons-Dart-Frogs-/360565869165?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Reptiles_Spiders_Insects&hash=item53f3668a6d
 
Would I be ok putting these in my tank? I'd like to create a blackwater tank.

 

[DrRob]

Oak leaves are fine in general, the issue is whether they've been exposed to anything toxic to your fish such as pesticides or fungicides. It does say that they've been washed and sterilised. I suspect they're probably fine but the seller may be able to fill you in on the source enough to keep you happy.

 

[Lunar Jetman]

Please note these leaves are washed and sterilised and are perfectly safe for use in the vivarium.

Sterilised with what? I've never used leaves before but know you can. However I'd be reluctant based on this statement. Not sure if someone else on the forum can advise or recommend some alternatives.

 

[Electric Warrior]

Indian almond leaves (catappa leaves). You can get a few different sizes, there are lots on eBay and fish seem to love them. They supposedly have antibiotic properties to. I just soak mine in boiling water, and after a few days of soaking they usually stay on the bottom, if not I just sprinkle some sand over them and they stay. They release tannins so if you want blackwater, you can also add the water they were soaking in, directly into the tank.

 

[Thedoctor]

Indian almond leaves (catappa leaves). You can get a few different sizes, there are lots on eBay and fish seem to love them. They supposedly have antibiotic properties to. I just soak mine in boiling water, and after a few days of soaking they usually stay on the bottom, if not I just sprinkle some sand over them and they stay. They release tannins so if you want blackwater, you can also add the water they were soaking in, directly into the tank.

 
I was going to say 'No, i've looked into them, they are too expensive for the quantity I want'.
 
But I've just found this
 
 http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amys-100-LRG-INDIAN-ALMOND-CATAPPA-LEAVES-betta-discus-/380126989314?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item5881558c02
 
Would I be safe in putting a large amount in my tank altogether  to create a leaf litter bed? It wouldn't become too much of a good thing for the fish would it?
 
Edit - Ah crap just saw the postage.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I run a couple of acid water, stained tanks. I use several things to achieve my desired results.
 
1. Cattapas- I basically rinse them under running water, pre-soak them for about 30 minutes barely covered (I save this water to add to the tanks). I just drop them in and let them sink when and where they want and I change them out every other week. I prefer to rely on these the least due to the cost (and I get them cheaply). These will stain the water, release phenols and other good stuff and lower the pH.
 
2. Alder cones. These are in a bag in the filter. I let them totally break down and add in some fresh ones as they do. These really help to stain and will lower pH. be careful with these as a little bit goes a long way.
 
3. Rooibos tea- I brew this using very hot water, it should actually be allowed to be in boiling water for a bit. This has all the good properties of the catappas but does not drop the pH and does provide a really nice staining. In fact it may give you a .1 or .2 bump in pH. I used the roasted tea and mix 5 teabags into a quart of water. I add it to my changing water before it goes into the tank. I really like this stuff  as it is easy to use and I am not replacing rotting stuff as with the leaves or cones. the fish seem to really like it as well. I learned about rooibos from a Ph.D. professor of Bio-Chemistry. in S. Africa which is the only place the rooibos is found.
 
4. Kent Black Water Expert. This will stain the water and add some of the humic ingredients but it does not lower pH. I add it to my changing water before it goes into the tank.
 
The above said, I live in the woods and have many oak trees. The oak leaves are free and easy for me to collect, but I do not use them.
 
I also do not rely on any of the above to hold my pH stable in the 6.0 range I now want it, These things help but I still use some ro/di water mixed in plus some muriatic acid to help keep the pH steady. I have used it to maintain tanks at close to 4.0, but it is a PITA as I have to check the pH regularly using a digital tester to insure it remains under control.
 
I hope some of the above is helpful.

 

[Thedoctor]

Thank you
 
Any particular reason you don't use Oak leaves?

 

[Electric Warrior]

Indian almond leaves (catappa leaves). You can get a few different sizes, there are lots on eBay and fish seem to love them. They supposedly have antibiotic properties to. I just soak mine in boiling water, and after a few days of soaking they usually stay on the bottom, if not I just sprinkle some sand over them and they stay. They release tannins so if you want blackwater, you can also add the water they were soaking in, directly into the tank.

 I was going to say 'No, i've looked into them, they are too expensive for the quantity I want'. But I've just found this  http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amys-100-LRG-INDIAN-ALMOND-CATAPPA-LEAVES-betta-discus-/380126989314?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item5881558c02 Would I be safe in putting a large amount in my tank altogether  to create a leaf litter bed? It wouldn't become too much of a good thing for the fish would it? Edit - Ah crap just saw the postage.

Wow, 100 leaves? How big is your tank? I guess the postage is because they are from Asia. I buy mine from a UK seller who is in Scotland, and I a have always been happy with their stuff. Always comes in a few days too. They sell them in bags of 10. The 'medium' sized leaves are pretty big, like the size of my palm. They do have large ones too, but not right now for some reason.
http/shop.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/searchresults?cmd=SREF&pg=1&sellerId=alh185&kw=seller%253Aalh185

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Yes there is a reason. When I first got to the point where I was getting altums I came upon a thread on the site where I go for expert advice re these fish. There was a post mentioning catappa leaves and I, being uninformed, posted the following:
 
"Excuse what may be a dumb question, but are the catappa leaf "Indian almond leaves"? And another Q re leaves, would oak leaves do?"
 
Here is the answer I got back from somebody whom I trust to know:
 
"...... Catappa or Ketapang leaves (Terminalia catappa) are Indian Almond Leaves.

These are much stronger than oak when it comes to providing benefical acids, phenols, and other biosurfactants to the water than oak.

I also used oak years back but boiling a large amount of leaves to get a bit of blackwater color and they never give the result of catappa (leaf for leaf). But there free in many places."
 
My original post about liking the rooibos so much might make even more sense if I explained I am in the process of setting up a 150 gal. for the Altums. If I had to rely completely on catappas to "season" the water it would be a lot more expensive, messy and demanding in terms of work. I am investigating purchasing 20 kilos of loose rooibos wholesale. I currently can only find it in teabags and its not the ideal way, especially for a bigger tank.

 

[Thedoctor]

I have no problem getting tanned water with the wood I have.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Doc- come back in a couple of few years and post that again, if the wood keeps putting them out for anywhere near that long and at a steady rate I would be surprised. And what about the acids, phenols, etc.?