Nutrient deficiencies

[CaptainBarnicles]

Any chance of a video showing this hectic surface disturbance? It may be too great, which can drive CO2 out and there goes a macro-nutrient.

Yes, I wondered the same...I do exaggerate my adjectives somewhat but its definitely substantial. When the lights come on I'll get that posted thanks for your help

 

[connorlindeman]

Yes, I love me a bit of Pascoe. I must have watched that video about a billion times but my ADHD goes 'look! A squirrel! 🐿'....I feel the 3.0 should really be used for high tech, c02 injected tanks and not my humble crypt garden, just too powerful!

Thats good to know. I was considering getting one just for the tech.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

What's the verdict?

 

[Byron]

I consider that excessive. I'm not surprised floating plants couldn't make it. Is there any way to turn this down? There doesn't appear to be any sheltered areas in the whole tank where the fish can get out of this.

The issue of CO2/oxygen exchange in planted tanks via surface disturbance is not agreed by all sources, ever since one of these began advising that more was actually better, and of course this caught on with some. I asked for data in support, got no answer, so I decided it was skeptical at best. My tanks under 40g had a sponge filter which has very minimal current. My cory tank a 40g has a small (rated for 10g) internal Aqueon Quiet Flow filter which is just a sponge and motor, avoiding the air pump, but it can be adjusted for more disturbance and I used this for the cories who showed signs of CO2 lethargy in the very early morning from the rebuild of CO2 during the night. That problem solved, but I had the rippling surface only at the right rear corner, and by the time the current reached the opposite end wall the plant leaves there were not even moving. It doesn't take much.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

I may have to disagree with you regarding shelter, a lot of the plants barely move.

I wanted some decent flow around the tank to pick up all the muck and send it back to the inlet, I initially had the wavemaker bouncing off the front of the tank and round but it did blast the plants a fair bit...not that the fish minded particularly. But whilst treating for worms I moved it up to increase aeration due to the meds and the rainbows perked up almost immediately, they seem to appreciate the higher oxygen levels.

I'm not opposed to taking the wavemaker out (unfortunately I can't change the speed it works at) to rule out whether or not its playing a negative role where the plants are concerned.

I've turned the lighting period down to 8 hours as well as decreasing the intensity the lights work at to 70%.

I need to be more consistent with dosing ferts, I am slack with it unfortunately. I suppose I never really worried too much because of the high mineral content. My initial research had me thinking there was a potassium deficiency due to how the leaves yellow and start disintegrating

 

[Magnum Man]

watching with interest... looks like a Rainbow tank... I was going to suggest some softer water ( drift wood ) until I saw the Rainbow... I have much the same issues in my Rainbow tank... I have dwarf water lilies ( and other plants ) in mine, & the water lilies look similar to some of your symptoms... I use lily tabs ( Chalily Aquatic Plant Fertilizer for Water Lily and Lotus ) plan on adding some minerals, & have a CO2 generator I've yet to start up... my tank is in the basement, so it gets no natural light & I use 3 LED grow light sticks for about 18 hours... don't seem to be getting any excess algae, just weak growth on my lilies

got this on the way here right now, but not tried any yet...

Seachem Flourish Freshwater Plant Supplement​

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Lilies are massive root feeders from my understanding so a decent amount of root tabs wouldn't hurt in your situation.

Something just occurred to me....I keep my water temperature at around 26-27°C....I wonder if that may be an issue?

 

[Magnum Man]

Thanks... my tanks are all currently set at 78-79 degrees, except the Tilapia tanks outside, are at about 85 degrees... my lilies did better since I bumped up my temps up from 72 degrees ( I originally had a few goldfish with them )

 

[Magnum Man]

another thing I did with my lilies & Lotus's is I use a half of a bowel of bagged pond dirt, covered with a layer of black aquarium gravel, then a thin layer of whatever gravel is in the rest of the tank... you can see massive root clusters, & originally they were throwing out 8" lily pads, but those got all tangled up in the turbulence from my filter... & I had to trim the big ones... since then, they are only throwing out 3-4" pads

putting them in "pots" makes it easy to work on, but maybe they are getting pot bound???

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

I think it's a sensible idea putting them in pots! The roots can take over the tank in no time so it makes sense to me... I'm not sure about them getting root bound though, be interesting to know if anyone else could shed some light

 

[Byron]

I think it's a sensible idea putting them in pots! The roots can take over the tank in no time so it makes sense to me... I'm not sure about them getting root bound though, be interesting to know if anyone else could shed some light

The problem, or one problem, with plants in pots is you loose a lot of their benefit. When plants photosynthesis, they release oxygen, and often quite a lot depending upon the light intensity and available nutrients. "Pearling" is often seen. But before you see this from the leaves, the plants are releasing this excess oxygen via the roots. Allowing the extensive root sstem of plants like swords and lillies to spread throughout the substrate is a prime means of oxygenating the substrate. Malaysian Livebearing snails burrowing through th substrate also serve to aerate it, but they don't provide their own oxygen. This is important for a healthy substrate.

When I tore down my 5-foot Amazon tank to move, the roots of the swords crisscrossed the substrate unbelievably; roots had grown 2 feet from the crowns in every direction they could. The play sand was 4-5 inches deep. This tank held my 70 Corydoras, and I never once vacuumed or dug into the sand in the 4-5 years it was running after the sand substrate was added. When I did happen to dig in to plant, there was so little mulm stirred up I could barely see it. The cories with their digging, and the plant roots, kept the substrate fresh and healthy.

 

[Byron]

I may have to disagree with you regarding shelter, a lot of the plants barely move.

They are moving more than I ever had in my tanks. The plants are having problems, and I suggested perhaps CO2 if the surface disturbance was too much, and the video suggests to me it is. That was the issue asked about, the plants.

As for the fish, they are clearly fighting against the strong current. And there is no escape from it, 24/7. I will bow to @Colin_T expertise on the atherinids, but from my research several years back I did not find strong currents indicated for some of these fish, such as Melanotaenia boesemani which "Inhabits shallow areas with dense vegetation in the Ajamaru Lakes. The pH is between 8 and 9. The fish have also been seen in surrounding tributaries having a lower pH." However, the question initially was the plant problem.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Well alright then. I'll turn the wavemaker off and see how they fair much obliged