Not Running The Filter?

JustFrozen

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First of all, I've been wondering this for awhile now: it is recommended that while doing things such as water changes that you unplug your filter (depending on the filter and where it is located), but how long can you leave it unplugged? seems to me that as long as you keep water in it (preferably tank water without chlorine and with a low level of ammonia :) ) that it will be okay for a long time

The reason I'm asking, besides wanting to know in general, is that I'm going to be adding sand to a tank that is currently cycling. I imagine that even after cleaning the sand thoroughly, the tank water is going to be full of the stuff for a day or two, and I don't want the filter getting messed. Can I just leave it off for a couple days? Should I just add the sand when the cycling process is finished? Any other red flags you can think of?
 
The bacteria will die off at a rate of about 3-10% a day,e very 24 hours, IF the filter media is kept in water with NO ammonia. If you put the filter media in a bucket of tank water, just put an aerator below the filter media, that way there will be water traveling through the media and then add some ammonia. This will ensure that you do not loose as much, or any at all, bacteria.

-FHM
 
I do not hesitate to unplug a filter for a large water change. The media will stay moist for an hour or two while I do even a huge water change. On the other hand, you are talking about waiting a very long time for sand to settle. In that situation you would do well to follow FHM's advice and make sure you keep water circulating around the media while we wait for it to be safe to plug in the filter. Another option might be to set up the filter to run on a bucket.
 
Thanks for the good advice guys, that really clears a lot up.

I've got one last thing I'm wondering on that subject, basically for future reference, and this may sound a little silly but, is it okay to pull the media out when transferring it (not have it submerged at all) for about a minute?
 
As long as it stays wet/ damp. I've left wet media out of the water for an hour with no noticeable effects. Some small amount probably dies, but as long as it stays wet it should be good for quite a while.
 
When I clean my filters, big canister types, I sit the media on the side of the sink while I wash out the canister itself using tap water. Once the canister and impeller part are clean, I refill the empty canister with my moist media and return the canister to its normal location, empty of any water. Once in place I prime the canister and plug it in. The priming on my canister is very easy, you connect it and wait about a minute while it fills itself. The whole time I was cleaning the plastic canister and the impeller head, the moist media just sat on a towel waiting for me to get done. I never have any problems with losing bacteria in my media as long as I don't let it dry out. You could think of it as if you made a temporary version of one of those biowheel filters. The media is moist and exposed to oxygen so if anything it is a minor boost to the bacterial colony in terms of available oxygen. The trouble is there is no ammonia to feed the bacteria to go with the oxy.
 
I do a similar thing to OM47 above and also found that the bacteria is fine.
However I do feel you might be worrying about nothing much at all...

Give the sand a REALLY good wash before you even touch the tank.
Then turn off filter, and add the sand. Leave it for say an hour. You will find that the significant sized sand has all settled well by then. The water may be slightly cloudy, but the filter media itself is quite capable of dealing with that and stopping it getting to the impeller if that is what worries you. Switch the filter back on.

I really don't think you have to be looking at having your filter off for 'days', maybe an hour, or 2 whilst you do the change and let the majority settle, but not much longer than that. :good:
 
As Schmill said, the water will be cleaned by the filter but it depends on what type of filter you have. A typical hang on back, HOB, filter has the first thing in the flow path being the impeller. If you get fine sand into the impeller, it can cause damage there. If you have a canister, all of the filter media is in front of the impeller and it is fairly safe to run it with a bit of sand in the water column.
 
yea I use HOB and i've heard of the impeller getting ruined a lot. it sounds like i should be okay with sand if i let it settle first right? i'm still trying to decide between sand and gravel though. if you feel its pretty risky then i'd much rather just get gravel.

maybe you guys can help me decide. here's my pro/con list for sand/gravel

white sand
+ looks a LOT better
+ easier on corys
+ once it settles it will keep looking like the day i bought it as long as its clean
- harder to clean
- a little pricier since i cant find white play sand
- could be problematic for the filter

black gravel
+ much easier to clean
+ a little cheaper
+ wont be problematic for the filter
- wont look as good, but the black will contrast the colorful fish i'll likely have
- probably will eliminate corys from my tank even though they'll probably be fine. i just dont want them if they cant dig around in the sand
- has the possibility of the color chipping away, would could add debris and degrade the visual quality

granted, with little to no experience, this list is entirely based on what i've read and come to understand. i'm hoping some words of wisdom from those much experienced than myself will help me decide, because for the life of me, i cant decide even after weeks of thinking about it
 
I would vary that list a bit JustFrozen. Option 3 is coarse sand or fine gravel, you choose what to call it. Get a natural color mix of the stuff and you will never see any dirt in it although it may have lots in it. I use something of that nature in all of my tanks except for my NPT tanks.
Cons, it does not give a sharp contrast to fish, they even sometimes blend into their surroundings like they might in nature. Here is a picture of some with some of my pygmy cories, Corydoras hastatus.
Closeup640.jpg
 
As you wanted some opinions, here are mine against your lists, (of course these are just my thoughts /experience!)

White Sand
+ looks a LOT better
(subjective... looks nice when it is new, but despite stiring mine, having trumpet snails, corys, and plants, mine started to form black patches within the sand, and the surface of the sand showed every little tiny thing that landed on it)

+ easier on corys
Again, it's a bit of a comparison. Yes they like to dig in it, IF you can keep it all clean. The films I've seen of corys in the wild have never been on a sandbed, but just a common mud river bed. I honestly don't think that smooth fine gravel is any worse for the corys than the sand. In fact if I was to rub a handful of sand through my fingers, and then a handful of my gravel, the sand definitly felt more abrasive to me...

+ once it settles it will keep looking like the day i bought it as long as its clean
Yup, it's just the end of that sentance you have to bear in mind ;)

- harder to clean
I have to agree, it used to take me ages 'hovering' the pipe above the sand, to remove the rubbish, then recovering the sand from the bucket, rewashing it, and adding back to the tank :roll:

- a little pricier since i cant find white play sand

- could be problematic for the filter

- be very careful when cleaning the glass, sand has a nasty habit of scratching, and it's not as easy to see when you have some trapped against the glass as it would be with gravel ;)

Black gravel
+ much easier to clean
Yup :good:

+ a little cheaper
Perhaps, of course it all depends on what sand you price up and what gravel you price up.

+ wont be problematic for the filter
:good:

- wont look as good, but the black will contrast the colorful fish i'll likely have
Again, subjective, personally I would disagree here, I really prefer my darker substrate :)

- probably will eliminate corys from my tank even though they'll probably be fine. i just dont want them if they cant dig around in the sand
Get a fairly fine black gravel. The stuff I have, (Roman Gravel), is quite fine, but is also pretty lightweight, (when I washed it I had to actually persuade some of it to sink!). All my corys seem to be quite happy sifting through the top layer, although obviously not as deeply as they would in sand.

- has the possibility of the color chipping away, would could add debris and degrade the visual quality
Depends on what you buy. I have had my Roman Gravel in for around a year or so now, and it still looks as good and as black as it has ever been :)

+ I find it easier to plant into gravel than sand, as things actually stay rooted, (although this could be overcome with sand if you use plant weights).

+ Gravel tends to stay where you put it, both day-to-day, and also when refilling the tank after a waterchange. Conversly, I used to find the sand would shift, even just in the flow of the filter.


As I say, those are just my thoughts, but it gives you a different opinion to your own from someone who has tried both. :)
If you click in my signature there should be some pictures of the tank with the black substrate in the thread, (the early photos have 'natural gravel', which I decided I neither liked the colour of, nor the size, weight, or roughness for my corys!
 
Schmill's post just reminded me that I had this picture. I had just set the tank up and put a sponge filter on it with a power head to move the water. You can see, through the cloudy water, that it was developing "sand dunes", maybe beach erosion would be a better term, because the water flow was moving things around.

BeachErosion.jpg


The solution was a filter that did not have as much flow and then level the sand/small gravel back out. It is the same tank as the one that soon after had my Corydoras hastatus in it, the ones in the picture.
 
Now that I am at home, to save you hunting through my linked thread, here are the 2 photos of my tank, one with 'normal gravel' and then the one with the new black substrate:

168150b1.jpg


0a3ce4f4.jpg


:good:
 
now i was a firm believer in gravel when i first started out, but over time i have found it is actually more hard work than sand. with sand, everything sits on top of the sand rather than in between it, so ig cleans up easier than gravel, plus ive never had any major issues with 'dunes', and if it is disturbed its easy enough to scoop back to where it was

just my opinion mind :)
 

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