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Not paying money back

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emeraldking

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This evening I've invited someone over who had guppies from me a couple of times. But she let me know that a number of them got sick and some have died the past couple of days. She asked me to give her her money back. And I already gave her those guppies for a very cheap price. And I don't mind giving money back if the cause of it comes from my place. But I asked her to come over with some water of that tank. I told her that I wanted to check out her water before I would give some money back. She came and gave me a bag of water. I've tested it and it turned out that her water was way too soft. I told her to take a good look at my tanks and asked her if she saw any sick fish or fish that had the same symptoms. She couldn't see any weird swimming or sick fish. And I've asked her if she recently put new fish or plants in there. And then she told me that she bought some new plants in there that started to slime. I told her that certain plants don't do well in soft water.
Because the problem that she's dealing with didn't come from my place, I could justify not to give any money back. I told her that she needs to know what she's doing. Everybody can put fish in a tank. But that's not the whole story when it comes to fishkeeping. That's something I made her very clear. One tank is okay at her place. So, I said to her that I'm willing to be lenient despite of the fact that the problem was hers. So, I offered her to give her a number of various types of guppies and that she should put them in the other tank first. And raise the water hardness of the problem tank. And then I send her home. She realized that she couldn't blame me for the problem she has.
It's so important to know what you're doing when you start keeping fish. No matter cold, subtropical or tropical. And I totally understand that people get impatient to get fish in a new tank but the mind has to win from the heart in this case. So, be sensible when starting this aquatic hobby... Get things done the way it should be before any living creature will be added.
 
Hello emerald. You were under no obligation to return money to someone who clearly doesn't know how to care for fish. There are different ways to get to a destination in the hobby where you keep healthy fish. The ways may be different. But ultimately, the destination is the same.

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I agree, good call on your part. You can only sell them the fish...what they do to the fish once they leave your property is entirely on the buyer. If they're not putting the fish in the right water conditions and the fish wind up dying, it's no fault of your stock.

Reminds me when I sold a 75 gallon to a gentleman who drove up in a Civic and put the 75 gallon in the backseat and shut the door. The tank did not fit in the backseat. He then messaged me on the Facebook messenger that the tank was cracked when he got home, and I said yes you cracked it when you close the door on it because it was not cracked when I sold it to you. He could do nothing but agree and even came back and bought another 75 gallon from me and put it in a car where it actually fit without damaging it, lol.
 
To be clear, I don't mind giving someone's money back. But it should be clear that the problem came from me in order to do that. It's such a pity that people try to put the blame on someone else. I even told her when she was already at my place that I would give her the money back instantly if she would notice fish overhere witth the same symptoms. She had her hopes up but couldn't find any fish that had these problems. I told her that I'm willing to test the water of each tank in front of her.
Fish diseases can happen in every tank, no matter how well the tank is maintained. People should be aware of that at all times. The most important things is to search for the cause and solve it. Doesn't mean that it's easy to do so. I do need to say that as well.
But in a way I was pleased that I convinced her by telling the truth that the problem of dying fish didn't come from my place. And watch her face to see how she made a fool out of herself to try to blame me for it. I'm a tolerant person but think before you blame someone else. She was amazed that I gave her some new fish but no money. But I told her the conditions they should be in.
The only thing I regret is that the small group of black moscow guppies have died as well which I sold her before besides the other guppies. If I knew this before, I would've given them to another breeder that was looking for some fresh blood for his black moscow population. Then they'd be most likely still be alive.
There are different ways to get to a destination in the hobby where you keep healthy fish. The ways may be different. But ultimately, the destination is the same.
That's absolutely true. I also say a lot that there's not one right way to do things but multiple. As long as something works, it works. But you need to know what you're doing and that's the problem with a lot of people. They just don't know what they're doing.
and I said yes you cracked it when you close the door on it because it was not cracked when I sold it to you. He could do nothing but agree
That's what I meant. Knowing that the problem "may" be yours but try to blame someone else first.
 
my LFS had a 2 day return policy if a fish dies
Petco and Petsmart have a 14 day return policy.

@emeraldking
How many days after the sale did she complain about losing fish?
 
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I have never in my entire fish keeping and aquarium days ever asked for money back on any fish that died . I figured it was just one of those things and that we were dealing with a small living creature that may have gotten stressed and that the untimely demise was nobody’s fault . I took my lumps and moved on . Unfortunately there are miserly cheap skinflints out there whose money is more important to them than the breath of life itself and fortunately they are not the majority of people . If it was me I would have gave her the money and told her to never darken my door again .
 
I have never in my entire fish keeping and aquarium days ever asked for money back on any fish that died . I figured it was just one of those things and that we were dealing with a small living creature that may have gotten stressed and that the untimely demise was nobody’s fault . I took my lumps and moved on . Unfortunately there are miserly cheap skinflints out there whose money is more important to them than the breath of life itself and fortunately they are not the majority of people . If it was me I would have gave her the money and told her to never darken my door again .
I agree but with an exception. The exception would be if I ordered on-line and a fish arrived dead. If that were to happen it may not actually even be the seller's fault but I consider the seller responsible until the beasties are in my possession. Since I live right next to Dan's Fish's warehouse I doubt that such a situation will ever happen.
 
@emeraldking
How many days after the sale did she complain about losing fish?
About a month ago.
If it was me I would have gave her the money and told her to never darken my door again .
Well, the problem is that the dead and sick fish were not the result of something coming from me. That's why I asked her to bring along the water they were in. And I let her check my tanks. And it was caused by something at her place. Which she tried to blame me for.
I'm very straight forward to customers that when the cause of the problem came from my place, I wouldn't even hesitate to refund them or give them new ones. But i told her to put those fish in the other tank that thrives well where she keeps some platies in.

Most of my career I've been working in the technical commercial industry. And I know how to handle such persons. In the end she agreed that I was right.
 
The way I look at it is that if I get the animal into my tank alive, then the rest is on me. One exception: I will take fish back to Petco or Petsmart- they have a very forgiving policy and I also feel that they don't care for their stock as much as LFS do, so I like the idea that they take responsibility for the fish living for a few days after getting in the tank.

I feel like the LFS do a good enough job keeping their fish healthy that I need to take the hit if it dies in the first few days of getting it home. I was a little skeptical with some otos I bought a while back, but I took the hit and just went to another LFS to get the next ones. I happened to catch them while they were being drip acclimated, so that was a find- no time for the otos to starve any more than they had. This LFS keeps their otos in the tank that they sell plants out of, though, so I think they are fed better.

Anyway, drifting off topic, but if I buy fish and get them in the tank alive, it's on me to keep them alive after that.
 

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