No Nitrites?

[dcarmor927]

I have a 55 gal tank with 3 clown loaches and 6 tiger barbs. I am doing a fish in cycle. my tank has been running for 25 days, i've had the fish for 23. I have been getting steady ammonia readings, resulting sometimes in twice daily water changes.
After this afternoons change my water stats are as follows:
pH 7.2
Ammonia- less than .25 ppm
Nitrite- 0 ppm
Nitrate- 0 ppm
I would have expected to see some nitrites by now...or am i just crazy?

 

[Colin_T]

Theoretically you should have had a nitrite reading by now. If you are still getting an ammonia reading then something is preventing the beneficial bacteria from developing and starting the cycling process.
Have you cleaned the filter since the tank was set up? If so don't. You want to disturb the filter as little as possible during the first month or so. Then when you clean it never wash the filter materials out under tap water and don't change more than 1/3 to 1/2 of the filter materials at any one time.
Make sure the filter is run continuously, 24hours a day.
If you have a white granulated substance called Ammogon or Zeolite in the filter then remove it because this stuff absorbs ammonia and stops the bacteria developing properly.
Check the water temperature, at lower temps, below 20C, the bacteria take longer to grow and the cycling process can take many months to complete. 24-26C is optimal for a fish in cycle.

 

[dcarmor927]

i did change the bio bags once, two weeks ago, so i guess thats what set it back. I havent turned off the filter, dont have any of that ammonia absorbing stuff in the filter, just the bags and sponges. and my temp is 75 F... so like 24 C...the filter change had to be it, thanks for the response

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Yeah if you changed the bio bags then effectively you started a new cycle that day. remember is is the filter media that is cycling not the tank, water, fish or anything else. So effectively the filter has only been cycling for 2 weeks or so which is a different story.

If you're still getting ammonia readings then not all the ammonia is being converted into nitrite so there may have been trace amounts of nitrite coming through but not much, with twice daily water changes you would have diluted the nitrite enough that you don't get a test reading for it. Once the ABacs have got themselves going properly and are eating up all the ammonia you'll start to see a rise in nitrites to the point where water changes don't dilute them down to 0.

Just stick with it, don't touch the filter while cycling at all unless it gets so clogged up with waste that the flow rate drops.

 

[waterdrop]

What is usually in a "biobag?" Is this a term one of the manufacturers use?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[dcarmor927]

The biobags have carbon in them, i guess its just the term that is used, idk but yea, haven't touched the filters since then, i thought that the bacteria resided primarily in the sponge media, so i didnt think the filter change would set me back, oh well, thanks for the help

 

[Colin_T]

The bacteria live in the sponge, on noodles, and in the carbon and on the bags of carbon. However, in a newly set up tank it takes a while for the bacteria to settle on the filter materials and be able to hold onto it properly. This means that even a slight disturbance can upset them and potentially wash them off the filter media. It then takes more time for them to settle back onto it.
In a new tank the bacteria have to build up in numbers too and if there was only a number of them in the filter, then you would have halved that number when you replaced the media. This will set the cycling process back a couple of weeks.
Once the filters have been running and established for more than a couple of months you can remove half the media and the remaining bacteria will quickly colonise the new materials, (usually within a week).

Carbon isn't necessary for most tanks and is used primarily to remove chemicals from the water. It will also remove plant fertilisers and fish medications. Most people don't bother about using it unless they have heavy metals (copper) in their tap water, or they have treated a tank and want to remove the medication. In a month or two you might want to replace the carbon bag with something else, perhaps another sponge or some ceramic beads/ noodles.

 

[dcarmor927]

crap, i'm anxious to get new fish...oh well, patience is a virtue right? thanks for the info, ill be keeping it in mind, i'm not sure how metallic my water is so i'll keep the carbon in there until i find out, which is hopefully before my cycle is done, also i have no live plants and hevent given any meds yet(knock on wood) thanks again

 

[Colin_T]

Copper is the most common heavy metal found in tap water. It comes from the water pipes in the house. Hot water causes more copper to leach into the water than cold water does. The highest readings are usually found first thing in the morning when the taps haven't been used for a few hours, (everyone has been asleep) and the water has had time to sit. Also when you first get home from work in the evening, then if no one is home during the day the water has time to sit in the pipes and potentially leach copper from the pipes.
The easiest way to prevent copper getting into the tanks is to run the taps for a couple of minutes before you collect the water. This will flush out any contaminated water and the newer water coming through the taps should be free of it. I water the garden before collecting water for water changes and this flushes the pipes out pretty well.
The amount of copper leaching out of the pipes depends on the age and quality of the pipe-work. In most houses the levels are usually very low and don't cause any problems. However, in some old houses, or really new houses the levels can be recorded and the trace amounts can build up in people, animals, and the fish, and cause health issues in the long run. Having said all that, it isn't a big issue or common problem in most houses, and many people never have a problem with it.

You can buy copper test kits or just take a sample of tap water to your LFS and have them test it for copper. You can also get the to test for general hardness (GH) & carbonate hardness (KH) if you don’t have these test kits.
Alternatively some universities and labs will test tap water and give you a list of things in it. But they normally cost a lot more than the LFS.

 

[waterdrop]

Excellent infomational on copper Colin_T, thanks much!

I agree with the others that replacing the carbon was a significant enough disturbance that you are close to a fishless cycle start again. While its true that in all likelihood you don't need the carbon and its just using up valuable space that could contain more biomedia (greater biomedia volume being a significant positive), its really not a big deal and just leaving it alone is now the best move. Much later, after the overall filter has matured a lot more, and way after cycling I'd say, you can pull off the removal of the carbon and replace it with more ceramics or a sponge or whatever by then you've figured out would be the best media for that spot in your water path in the filter. For now, cycling is more important than anything else.

The beneficial bacteria will be quite happy establishing themselves on your carbon (just like your sponges and everything else) and carbon is even pretty competitive with respect to surface area versus the established leaders of sponges and ceramic rings and ceramic pebble products. The reason it is not as ideal as a biomedia is that it crumbles and breaks down gradually into dust and these smaller particles and the bacteria attached to them end up going on out with water changes or filter cleans, persumably. As a chemical media for removing meds, tannins and the rare strange odor, it is good and and should be kept on the aquarists shelf for those special occasions. Its good for about 3 days when you use it for those things and then is ready to be taken out and discarded.

Good luck on your Fish-In cycle. You have a pretty heavy stocking for a Fish-In cycle and the tank is pretty large, so the labor and time involved in water changes will be quite an effort, as I'm sure you know alreade, lol. If you happen across an opportunity to re-home your fish temporarily and switch to a fishless, you would be one of the cases that would maximally benefit from that, but its pretty hard usually to find the right circumstances for that. Your pH looks ok for the fishless cycle for now, but keep an eye out that it doesn't drop too much.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[dcarmor927]

Thanks again all, i tested the water straight out the filter and i have somewhere around .25 ppm Nitrites, Woo Hoo! lol now i just have to be patient and let it go its course, i'll end up paying for the water bill tho due to the daily water changes...do i handle the Nitrite portion of the cycle the same as the ammonia part? with water changes every time the nitrites get out of hand? Also the wood i've been soaking has finally quit its leeching, today seems like a good day

 

[Colin_T]

do i handle the Nitrite portion of the cycle the same as the ammonia part? with water changes every time the nitrites get out of hand?

yes you continue doing partial water changes whenever the nitrite gets too high. However, nitrite is nowhere near as toxic as ammonia so you don't have to worry as much.

Make sure you continue doing water changes while there is ammonia present.

If you reduce the feeding to once every couple of days, the ammonia and nitrite levels will stay lower and you won't have to do as many water changes.

Don't bother testing for nitrates until the tank has finished cycling. Nitrate test kits will read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading.

 

[dcarmor927]

Thanks for the test kit info also since the cycle began i've been feeding the buggers once every 2 days as opposed to the initial 2 times daily... This is the best smiley EVER!!! haha Thanks again!

 

[dcarmor927]

yes you continue doing partial water changes whenever the nitrite gets too high. However, nitrite is nowhere near as toxic as ammonia so you don't have to worry as much.

how high is too high?

 

[Colin_T]

try to keep the levels at or below 1ppm of nitrite until the filters have cycled. Then keep it at 0.