Nitrate Trouble

[kuzyaburst]

I did my weekly water change and this week I decided to do a big one like I usually do in the middle of the month. Before changing my nitrates got to 20ppm, and a day after changing I checked parameters everything is fine except nitrate... The nitrates are at 10ppm, should I do another 50% change? Or should I wait a little and do one midweek? My temperature is 78 degrees, my whole tank is planted (36g), I dose Flourish Comprehensive Supplement every week, and I feed 2x a day. My tank IS cycled, and has been running for about 2-3 months. Last week I also did a little experiment with Flourish Excel... I wanted to use it everyday for one week to see how it affects the tank vs without it. This isn't my first time using Excel though, I have used every 2-3 days ever since I started the tank, I just wanted to see what would happen with everyday regular dose usage. My fish seem healthy, nobody is fighting except Serpae Tetras nipping at each other which is normal. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you. I will also post a picture of my tank. OOOooh! I almost forgot my tank has been a bit cloudy not a lot, just a little cloudy this week and today.
 
 
You see the clouds yet? 

 

[Byron]

Nitrate at 10ppm is not bad.  I would however be concerned that it seems to climb to 20ppm.  From the photos the fish load does not appear heavy, so assuming your source water (tap?) is zero nitrate (?) you should be doing larger weekly water changes (I do and recommend 50% every week) and feeding less (once a day is more than sufficient).  Also, you can vacuum into the open area substrate during the water changes to remove some of the organics.  These changes should bring the nitrate down.
 
I would also recommend some floating plants.  These will help with nitrate too as they are rapid consumers of nutrients.  And the fish will appreciate them.
 
As for the cloudiness, that is a bacterial bloom.  Common in new tanks, but when it occurs in established aquaria it means something has got out of balance, probably temporarily as the bacteria will settle themselves down in time.  A sudden increase in organics can trigger a bacterial bloom, and given the increased nitrate and minimal water changes, this makes sense.
 
I would not use Excel.  There is no need for this, ande it is a highly toxic substance that even at recommended dosage will kill some plants, and should it be overdosed can kill bacteria, plants and fish.  I see no benefit adding such substances to an aquarium with living organisms.  Just my view, not everyone agrees I know.
 
Byron.

 

[Blubble37]

as far as I remember, ammonia and nitrite have to be bang on 0, nitrate can go up to 80 or so.
 
when i overdose the tank on ferts (as i do accidentally sometimes) it goes cloudy. Unsure as to why but it is actually a particulate billowing mass

 

[Akasha72]

my Nitrate runs at 40 or there abouts. Not worried or concerned. I always understood 40 was about right ... now I'm confused.com!

 

[kuzyaburst]

Nitrate at 10ppm is not bad.  I would however be concerned that it seems to climb to 20ppm.  From the photos the fish load does not appear heavy, so assuming your source water (tap?) is zero nitrate (?) you should be doing larger weekly water changes (I do and recommend 50% every week) and feeding less (once a day is more than sufficient).  Also, you can vacuum into the open area substrate during the water changes to remove some of the organics.  These changes should bring the nitrate down.

Ok thanks for the response I'm probably going to see how it affects my tank this week (Excel) and compare vs next week without it. I do have floating plants (Frogbit), I added another layer of substrate in the front yesterday because I planted some Dwarf Sag and there was no good plant substrate there so I added some, maybe that's why nitrate got higher. Yes, I do use tap water for a source and the reason I feed twice a day is because I heard people saying Rainbows need to be fed more than once a day. I do give them one day of digestion, meaning I don't feed them for one day or very very lightly feed them. 
 
I would also recommend some floating plants.  These will help with nitrate too as they are rapid consumers of nutrients.  And the fish will appreciate them.
 
As for the cloudiness, that is a bacterial bloom.  Common in new tanks, but when it occurs in established aquaria it means something has got out of balance, probably temporarily as the bacteria will settle themselves down in time.  A sudden increase in organics can trigger a bacterial bloom, and given the increased nitrate and minimal water changes, this makes sense.
 
I would not use Excel.  There is no need for this, ande it is a highly toxic substance that even at recommended dosage will kill some plants, and should it be overdosed can kill bacteria, plants and fish.  I see no benefit adding such substances to an aquarium with living organisms.  Just my view, not everyone agrees I know.
 
Byron.

 

[Byron]

as far as I remember, ammonia and nitrite have to be bang on 0, nitrate can go up to 80 or so.
 

 
Long term, with nitrates above 20 ppm, fish will begin having issues.  The higher the nitrate, and/or the longer they are exposed, whichever, affects them, and some fish species more quickly than others.  You don't have to take my word for this.  Dr. Neale Monks has repeatedly advised that nitrate should not be above 20 ppm, and if it can be kept no higher than 10 ppm, better still.  And although there have not been many studies with respect to nitrate in the past, some are now appearing and confirming.
 
Nitrate is after all just another form of nitrogen, and nitrogen at high levels kills.  The habitat waters where all our aquarium fish evolved have nitrate so low it usually cannot even be measured.
 
Over on the cichlid site, it is now being suggested that nitrates at 20 ppm or higher may be a significant cause of Malawi bloat, which previously was assumed to be only diet-related.  Dr. Monks has specifically written that all cichlid species appear to develop problems with nitrate at 20 ppm.
 
Given that it is easy to keep nitrate low, when it is occurring within the aquarium, there is no reason not to.  Nitrate in the source water is a different issue, but one that most will advise dealing with.
 
Byron.

 

[Arcticfox1977]

This is good reading. I use ei ferts and when I dose with the nitrate bottle, it pushes my nitrates up to 40 or a little higher. Obviously I have real plants, so what do you do if you dose for plants??

Sorry if this is taking it off topic.