Nitrate Or Ammonia

[cathat143]

I just did a test of my 10 gallon tank and the Nitrate levels were unexpectedly high (~110ppm). I'm going to do a water change in a moment but I'm also cycling a 48 gallon tank which currently has ~1.0mg/L ammonia, but no nitrate and a touch of nitrite (almost .5). I was wondering if it would be healthier for my fish to be in the larger tank for a few days while I get the nitrate under control in the small one?

(I'll switch to weekly water changes for my 10 gallon now.. I'm glad I have these test kits)

Thank you for your help.

 

[ThePiggy]

20ppm of nitrate at the very most is what your fish should be exposed to, but lower is better. For the next week, at least, you will need to do daily water changes of 25%. Check your tap water nitrate if that is where you get your water from for water changes.

Ammonia is worse for fish than nitrate.

You should do a large water change ASAP (60-70%). Leave your fish in the tank. Tomorrow, and until the nitrate is below 20ppm, do 25% water changes. Make sure you vacuum your gravel with every water change.

We need some more info about your tank so we can find out why it's in this condition and try to prevent it from happening again.

Tank size:
pH:
ammonia:
nitrite:
nitrate:
kH:
gH:
tank temp:

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Volume and Frequency of water changes:

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:

Tank inhabitants:

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):

Exposure to chemicals:

Digital photo (include if possible):

 

[cathat143]

Thanks for a speedy reply.

I just finished the large water change, and a few minutes later nitrates are down to 40 ppm. I'll do small water changes like you suggested until it's below 20ppm. My tap water had no nitrate in it.

Here's that extra info you asked for:

Tank size: 10g
pH: 6.8
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 40
kH:40
gH: 125
tank temp: 79F

Volume and Frequency of water changes: Every two weeks, 50% -- (will do weekly now)

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
a little Aquarium Salt

Tank inhabitants:
Blue Gourami
Bosemani Rainbow
Hatchet Fish
5 gold barbs
3 neon tetras
(All but barbs will be moved to larger tank when cycling is finished)


Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
None

Exposure to chemicals: None

 

[backtotropical]

20ppm of nitrate at the very most is what your fish should be exposed to

Can you back that up with any facts?

I ask because the most recent research i am aware of suggests that fish will tolerate nitrate concentrations of up to 400ppm without negative effect.

Nitrate at that level is relatively harmless for all but the most sensitive of species.

A good check is to test your tap water and aim to keep the level in the tank as close to the level in the tap water as possible. That way, you can be sure that the nitrate isn't slowly (or quickly) building up.

 

[LauraFrog]

Most species I have kept have no problems with high nitrate levels. In fact as far as I know this holds for most tropical species. Personally I believe that high or uncontrollable nitrate levels occur when tanks are overstocked and water changes are done infrequently, but I think nitrate is more important as an indicator as to the function of the biological filter than a harmful agent to fish.

There are very notable exceptions however. There are some species, like all rainbowfish, discus, and some marines, which simply will not tolerate nitrate. Trying to keep these in water where the nitrate does not consistently remain below 20ppm is like trying to keep african cichlids in soft acid water - no matter what you do, you are eventually going to lose the fish because the water is unsuitable. Other than these species, high nitrate is far less concerning than high ammonia. If you put the fish in the tank with 1ppm ammonia - that's four times the recommended cutoff for fish in cycling - they will all die. If you put them in a tank with high nitrates, if they are nitrate sensitive they will just keep getting sick until you bring the nitrates down.

Since you have a rainbowfish in the tank, I would stick to Miss Piggy's recommended level of 20ppm. Rainbows do not like high nitrates at all, and they just won't thrive in a tank with that sort of nitrate level.

What test kit are you using though? 50% fortnightly should not be seeing nitrates at that sort of a level. Are you adding any plant fertilisers and are you sure your test kit is accurate?

 

[rabbut]

I sincerly hope you havent done the large waterchange recomended yet, as doing so is asking for a case of toxic shock that will wipe the tank You are dealing with OTS.

EDIT: explaination;

NM, just re-read, and seen the waterchange has been done. You can only hope that the tank does not crash now

OTS AKA Old Tank Symdrome occurs when the waterchange regiem is not enough to cope with the bio-loading on the tank. Toxins build up (nitrate is the only one of many toxins involved that we can test for, so only use nitrate as a guide here) and minerals are used up by the fish and get depleated. The fish can addapt to this easily, but the poor water quality will kill any new fish, and the pH will eventually crash, killing the current inhabitance...

The tank is overstocked, hence why you have a raging nitrate issue despite 50% fortnightly waterchanges. For most tanks, that would be sufficient, but not one that is stocked at 2.8 inches per gallon, assuming you only have one of each of the first three species all of which should be in a bigger group than one (bar the gourami)

I would surgest moving more than just the barbs across the the new tank once it is cycled. The Bosmani rainbow (and 5 new friends if it is alone, they need a group of 6+) should be transfered, as franckly a 10g isn't big enough for this active fish, along with the gourami. The new stocking will be more managable for you with weekly waterchanges than the current one.

As a rule, nitrate should be no higher than 20ppm above that of the tap water in a well maintained tank. 20ppm will be impossible to maintain for many in the UK, who's water supply comes in at 50ppm, the leagal limit for nitrate

When treating OTS in future, you want to start with small daily (5-10%) waterchanges for a week, then double the origional volume for a following week and then into a revised waterchange plan. Toxic shocks works two ways. If you lower the toxin quickly it will have the same effect as dropping a fish from water with no nitrate strait into the tank. For most spiecies the result will be toxic shock and death soon after Gently gently should be your advise for OTS in future guys

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Schmill]

Looks like the large waterchange has already been done

Was going to comment about the NitrAtes too. I've generally been told it's more of a 'trend' of results that matters with nitrAtes rather than an absolute value. For instance my TAP water comes out at 40ppm NitrAte, so my tank is never going under that. However, also my tank doesn't seem to go above it either with regular gravel vacs and water changes.

 

[petertr]

In short, weekly water changes of between 25-50% will keep your nitrate at a safe level.

Its the ammonia and nitrite levels that you need to keep a closer eye on.



(NB: Not to say the advice above is not valid - Im just summarising for you)

 

[cathat143]

So I'm kind of worried now, with all the new comments.. The fish are all fine today, and I hope it stays that way.
Should I still do some small water changes each day?

I would surgest moving more than just the barbs across the the new tank once it is cycled. The Bosmani rainbow (and 5 new friends if it is alone, they need a group of 6+) should be transfered, as franckly a 10g isn't big enough for this active fish, along with the gourami. The new stocking will be more managable for you with weekly waterchanges than the current one.

I know the stocking is really bad in my 10 gallon. I was going off reccomendations of my lfs, and had all the fish when I started reading this site.

I'm actually planning on moving all fish EXCEPT the barbs to the bigger tank when it's ready and getting more hatchets, rainbows, and neons so they will be in bigger groups.

I just hope all my fish make it, because I'm just on stage one of cycling for the big tank and ammonia has dropped, but very slowly (it is only day 5).

 

[rabbut]

Any damage of toxic shock would have been evident within a few hours, so if they all look fine, you got away with it

Keep up with as many waterchanges as nessisary to control your nitrate while the new tank cycles

All the best
Rabbut