Newcomer Plant Questions

[waterdrop]

Ok, I am really terrible at plants, so I have been avoiding asking the questions I know I need to start asking over here in the planted tank section. The problem always seems to be how to start since it is all so inter-related.

Goals: Healthy plants in son's community tank, low-light, easy-plants, but some learning about planted tanks

Background Part 1, Plants:

In keeping with doing everything wrong for my plants, I have started out by not taking good notes on what their names were. I have five types and I'm going to attempt to say what I think the 3 most important ones are:

Plant#1: The biggest one, I think might be Echinodorus cordifolins (Radican Sword?).. or it might be Echinodorus bleheri. anyway its some large type of sword, fairly pale green, fairly long stems with large rounded leaves, no heart shaping, but not round, more oval. Has grown several new, very pale green, leaves.

Plant#2: A thick bunch of more olive/reddish/brownish more tall pointed leaves. I believe this might be Cryptocorne wendtii "brown" or "red" (possibly even Red Rubin crypt). This bunch may have new leaves, hard to tell.

Plant#3: I think this is supposed to be some sort of "Java", maybe Microsorum pteropus. Very dark, lush green tall upright pointy leaves, a bit crinkly. They grow up from a horizontal cylindrical tuber like piece that the roots come out of. This one has been growing new leaves and is slowly getting taller I think. I'm tempted to throw everything else out and get a ton of these.

(Plant4 is some Hygrophila and plant5 I believe was called "mondo grass" and really looks like a sidewalk border plant with extremely thin stiff little long leaves. I thought it was one of those non-aquatic ones that should die but it seems to be hanging on and even growing new shoots.)

These plants were stressed when my son's tank broke and I had them in a bucket for a week and not anchored in any gravel or potted. I thought they would all die but I've sort of got them hanging on. They just came from a Petsmart run to keep us entertained a bit during fishless cycling.

Background Part 2, Lighting:

1) 24" black plastic stip w/Petsmart tank: 18 watt, fluorescent white, (18"?), white plastic reflector, no timer
2) added a second exact copy, therefor now have 36 watts (attempting to at least think of the plants here!)
3) 36 w / 28G tank = 1.3 w/g
4) Often on 12 hours or more

Background Part 3, Fertilization:

1) 1/2 capful Seachem Flourish about 1 time per week.
2) No root fertilization at this point.
3) Substrate: Seachem Flourite black mixed with plain black gravel, ratio unknown 50/50?

Part 4: (No CO2)

Part 5: Algae: I have brown algae on plant leaves, tank decoration and starts on tank walls until I scrape it off. (Note: Tank had fishless cycled for 3 months but then broke on day I got plants, plants subjected unplanted to bucket for a week and replacement tank has now been fishless cycling another 3 months - its been ready for fish but have been playing with the plants while deciding about fish, so it is still receiving 4ppm ammonia each day.)


Questions:
1) Should any/all of these receive fertilizer via sticks/balls/tablets put among their roots?
2) Should I have paid more attention and mixed more and different substrates?
3) Am I dosing the Flourish right or is it even the right choice?

Obviously I'd greatly enjoy any analyses or comments from members!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[waterdrop]

Ahh, darn, I've either written too much or picked a day when the planted tank members are out. Let me know if I need to ask my questions in a different way... thanks, waterdrop

 

[Dave Spencer]

Questions:
1) Should any/all of these receive fertilizer via sticks/balls/tablets put among their roots?

Personally, I have no experience of these as I either go for a complete substrate such as aqua soil, or I use inert sand. Your Echinodorus sp and Crypts may well benefit from them, seeing as you are not dosing any NPK in the water column.

2) Should I have paid more attention and mixed more and different substrates?

Not necessarily, for the reasons I presented on your thread about substrates. Inert substrates are far more cheaper.

3) Am I dosing the Flourish right or is it even the right choice?

Flourish only provides micro nutrients such as Mg, Ca, Fe etc. It is popular as a trace element, so you should see results from it.

You seem to have a sensible amount of light which should bring you success with your plants. I would also suggest that you are at growth levels where dosing NPK may not be necessary, but time will tell. You should be able to keep this tank growing healthily and slowly on what you are already doing.

As for the brown diatom algae, as long as you add ammonia you will have it. Once you start stocking with fish, Otos will make short work of it. I constantly read about how they should be introduced in to mature tanks only, but this is not the case IME. These alongside Caradina multidentata are usually my first occupants, and I don`t even cycle my high tech tanks. A certain Japanese guy whose name escapes me has always added these critters to his tanks first.

Dave.

EDIT: Pics of the plants would help, but that "mondo grass" sounds non aquatic to me.

 

[waterdrop]

Thanks so much Dave!

The big sword's new leaves seem so pale, almost translucent. Maybe its not possible to judge without seeing a pic, but does that seem normal - should they be more green? The outer third or so toward the tips of the Java Fern leaves also seem kind of translucent , these are the new leaves that have sprouted I believe (& I should check if they still look translucent when I get home..)

What are Caradina multidentata? Are they shrimp? Do they have a function you like for early tank introduction?

On the NPK: I'm such a beginner I don't quite know where to start to know how to think about this. Do you do tests for the individual p,n,k elements somehow and see whether each has a deficiency? ...If I read things about the EI methods, does that encompass both the fundamental PNK -and- the trace micro nutrients? (thus being a type of reading/learning that would bring me up to speed about NPK?)

thanks,
waterdrop
edits. I'm slow on the camera stuff, will be trying to try it at some point...

 

[Dave Spencer]

The big sword's new leaves seem so pale, almost translucent. Maybe its not possible to judge without seeing a pic, but does that seem normal - should they be more green? The outer third or so toward the tips of the Java Fern leaves also seem kind of translucent , these are the new leaves that have sprouted I believe (& I should check if they still look translucent when I get home..)

I`m not sure about the swords because I have never kept them, but my Java fern used to do that. I don`t know what it is exactly, but I have seen tanks published in Aqua Journal where the Microsorum sp are doing the same. I found that the leaves eventually gain their full colour.

What are Caradina multidentata? Are they shrimp? Do they have a function you like for early tank introduction?

These are Amano/algae/yamato shrimp. You can see why I like to use the latin name. A lot of planted tank enthusiasts add them to their tanks to help overcome early algae issues, plus they are great little critters to have.

On the NPK: I'm such a beginner I don't quite know where to start to know how to think about this. Do you do tests for the individual p,n,k elements somehow and see whether each has a deficiency?

I tested my first tank initially when I started using EI to get an idea for general trends of nutrient uptakes of nitrates and phosphates. Since that initial period, I haven`t tested for anything. EI moves the individual away from relying on what are essentially vague results from these kits, and on to knowing what you are adding to your tank on a daily basis. Quite simply, all ferts are added to excess at all times, with the water changes being large to reset the fert levels and start all over again. If you know what you are adding, and have a feel from what the plant mass is using why test? Your plants and fish will tell you if something is wrong way before the hobby test kits we use.

...If I read things about the EI methods, does that encompass both the fundamental PNK -and- the trace micro nutrients? (thus being a type of reading/learning that would bring me up to speed about NPK?)

EI covers everything, including lighting and CO2. It seems a little daunting at first, but it does make the hobby of growing plants easy and cheaper, if you use the salts recommended and don`t get fooled in to buying expensive aquarium lighting. My first ever tank was always going to be EI, once I got my head around the idea. With your light levels, you could run EI at reduced levels and introduce carbon via Flourish Excel or Easycarbo. EI is adaptable from high light to lower light tanks.

Dave.

 

[waterdrop]

Once again, thanks for the good answers!

And that pic of the java fern! That's dead on -- exactly what I was trying to describe!

Very encouraging about the possibilities I have open, even with my low light levels.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. had to deal with a power out over the weekend, so it put the slow down on my questions...