Newbie To Tropical Fish

[Shaide]

Hello Folks

 
Recently moved into a new house and decided that our lounge needed something - so we decided on getting a Tropical Fish Tank, now, neither myself or my partner have ever kept fish before but we wanted to give it a go.
 
Hopefully with some guidance from the more knowledgeable members this will be a success

 
This is our tank so far - we opted for a 64L Tank (was the biggest our local pet shop stocked)
 
Currently stocked with 1 Betta, 4 Clown Loach and 8 Neon Tetras - now we are wanting to add a couple of sucker fish for general tank maintenance and possibly a Red Tipped Shark (my partner loves them) however I am hoping someone can advise what would be best?
 
Any tips, tricks, criticism and pointers are greatly appreciated!
 

 

 

[Zikofski]

good looking tank can i ask did you cycle this tank before adding the fish? or did you buy the tank and add the fish strait away? also do you have a test kit?

missed but clown loach grow large they require a 6ft long tank, thats like 500L, i would highly recommend you take them back no offence to yourself but your LFS was stupid to even sell you them not your fault it is easy to buy fish but esp if the LFS give them to you with a tank

 

[Shaide]

Heya
 
The Tank was cycled for 1 week before adding the Tetras and the Tetras have been in there for about a week and a  half before adding the Betta and Loach.
 
Really!? The LFS said they'd be great, even told them the size of the tank etc! Shows how much you can trust them
 
What fish would you recommend to go with betta and tetras - my partner wants something with character and color!
 
Cheers!

 

[Ninjouzata]

Your tank is likely not cycled then..the only way to get it cycled in a week would be to use a reliable bacteria source like Dr Tim's One & Only and mature media.
Leaving a tank to sit just ensures the equipment is running, nothing else. Have a read of THIS to understand more about cycling. If you decide to do that HERE are some ammonia sources.
 
I would return your current fish and do a fish-less cycle since a fish-in cycle (which is what you'll be doing now) can lead to permanent damage and shorter lifespans of the fish.
It's difficult to do correctly and not harm the fish..if you really want to continue doing a fish-in cycle then read THIS and THIS.
 
Regardless of which one you do you'll want a liquid test kit (strips are notoriously inaccurate). API is a popular brand. Here's a pic of the API master test kit (sorry it's big):

 
As Zik said, clown loaches won't be suitable. They need a minimum of a 6ft long tank and groups of 6+ (preferably 8-10+). These guys can reach 12" or more.
 
By suckerfish I assume you mean a plecostomus. These make more mess than they clean. There are also none suitable for this sized tank, IMO.
Something that might work better would be a group of otocinclus but they're best in mature set ups (6 months+) and in groups of 6+.
 
I don't mean this rudely at all but it's your job to clean the tank, not the fishes.
If you do want something to help clean the glass and such I would go for a snail, specifically nerites. They come in a variety of colors and some have spiny shells. Here's a pic of some types you can get:

 
The red tipped shark is also not a good choice as they get 6" and require a 4ft long tank. They can also get very territorial once they get bigger so not the best for a peaceful community tank.
 
How are your neons doing with the betta? I've heard of some being nippy (I know mine are). Keep an eye on them to make sure they're not harassing the betta (or vice versa).
Did you do a test on the fake plants? Something you can do is run pantyhose across them and if they snag then they will snag the betta's fins.
 
What is your heater set to? I ask because I want to make sure your betta is nice and warm. They require a minimum of 78F (25.5C). HERE is some more info on their care.
 
I'm sorry for being so negative (and for all the links) but it's best you know this stuff now rather than later. Your tank is cute by the way

 

[star4]

Sadly your tank is not cycled. There is some good info here on cycling a tank..
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
 
As stated the clown loach need to go back to the shop, these fish (although it does take years) grow very large and small tanks are just not good for them. 
 
Where in the UK are you? it may be worth putting in the classified section on here a wanted ad for some mature media, this will really help your fish. You also need to get a test kit (maybe the shop will refund the clown loach and take the price off the test kit!!) You can monitor your water conditions with the test kit, when you get ammonia readings you need to do an immediate water change. Without cycling the tank there is no bacteria in your filter to keep the water safe for fish.
 
Dont worry, you are not the first and certainly wont be the last person to be given bad advice from a LFS, but you have found the best forum to help now

 

[ShinySideUp]

The tank is not cycled. Fish-in or fishless cycling takes a few weeks to get your filter up and running and you certainly can't do fish-in cycling with Clown Loaches. As has been said above, you should return the Clown Loaches, I have a six foot long 640 litre tank and I worry that it's big enough sometimes for my own CL's.
 
Don't add any more fish, return the Clowns and then start daily water changes and get yourself a test kit so you can check ammonia and nitrite levels regularly.
 
Read the various stickies regarding tank cycling on this forum and they will help you no end. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but a new tank owner has a steep learning curve if they are not to be disappointed with ill or dying fish.

 

[Byron]

Hi Shaide, welcome to the forum and this incredible hobby.
 
I agree with Zikofski, the clown loach will very soon be growing past the limits of your present aquarium, and this can damage fish because they cannot develop properly, so they should go back quickly.  And I'm afraid a Red Tail Shark won't do well either; this fish should attain six inches, which is getting much too large for your tank, and along the way they frequently get nasty to certain other fish.
 
The Betta and neon tetra might be OK, but keep a close eye out.  I had a Betta that easily ate neons, way back before I knew better; the size of the neons plus the bright colouration sometimes antagonizes a Betta.  Aside from this, neons can sometimes decide to nip fins of sedate fish and the Betta is a real temptation for this.
 
This is not a large tank, so I would be careful with "maintenance" fish, by which I assume you mean something to eat algae.  No fish will eat detritus/fish waste (small snails would help here), and algae eating fish often do little of value, plus they add to the bioload.  Something that would work though and be of some interest is the Whiptail Catfish, provided it is the smaller species Rineloricaria parva.  Some of these "whiptails" can get large, but this species remains under six inches, which may seem large but given its very thin body this is ideal in smaller tanks.  There is also a "red" variety sometimes available.  I'll add a photo of my R. parva and two of my "reds" for illustration; this was a couple years ago just after I acquired three "reds" and the quality of the photo is not the best, but it will give you an idea of the fish.  They do eat algae, though not voraciously.
 
Byron.

 

[Shaide]

Hello
 
Wow...I seriously wasn't expecting this many replies aha!
 
@Ninjouzata - I don't see it as negativity, more so constructive criticism Afterall, that's why I joined the forum and asked for you guys to advise!
 
- Maybe I worded it wrong when I said that I wanted plecos I wasn't implying I wouldn't be cleaning the tank, I am aware that regular water changes are needed aswell as cleaning the gravel etc.
 
- The tank was run fishless for the first week and I used API Quick Start as recommended by my LFS - will this of helped introduce some bacteria into the tank?
 
- I have just been out and brought an API Test Kit (felt like a mad scientist doing it all!) my readings were as follow, any advise on these would be appreciated!
 
pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 0.25ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
 
- In regards to the Neons and the Betta, they seem to be doing okay and I haven't even seen them bother with each other if I am honest - will keep a close eye on them however.
 
- Tank is set to 27C/80F
 
- I will go speak to the LFS about returning the Clown Loach, however much my partner loves them its not fair on the fish!
 
In hindsight, I wish I found this place before I brought the setup, however you trust that the LFS is going to advise you correctly ...I suppose they just want the money at the end of the day, which is a sad reality!
 
Thanks once again!
 
//Shaide

 

[TallTree01]

The various auto cycling products generally don't work, you may have gotten lucky though.
You have a few options really, you should really rehome the clown loaches regardless though.
You could rehome all your fish and fishless cycle according to the article by TwoTankAmin ( http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/ ) Google fishless cycling aquariums for more info.
Or you could keep your fish and be sure to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels as soon as possible through waterchanges.
You should put the temp at 24 degrees because the increased temperature will increase the fish metabolism and they will create more waste, ammonia and nitrite.

 

[Wildbetta]

The various auto cycling products generally don't work, you may have gotten lucky though.

You have a few options really, you should really rehome the clown loaches regardless though.
You could rehome all your fish and fishless cycle according to the article by TwoTankAmin ( http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/ ) Google fishless cycling aquariums for more info.
Or you could keep your fish and be sure to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels as soon as possible through waterchanges.
You should put the temp at 24 degrees because the increased temperature will increase the fish metabolism and they will create more waste, ammonia and nitrite.

While I understand where you are going with this advice, I do not recommend adjusting the tank temperature to anything below what the OP already has it since they have a fish that needs temperatures warmer than 24C.  Reducing the temperature might reduce the amount of waste but it would also put the fish in a stressful situation that it doesn't need to be in while going through a cycle.

 

[Byron]

I hadn't thought about the temperature previously, but now that it is mentioned this is a problem.  Neons cannot remain at 27C/80F for long, they will literally burn out.  This is a cooler water species, and a temperature no higher than 24C/75F is advisable, with perhaps 25/77 max.  Betta is a warm water fish, and several sources do allow a varying range with minimum being 24C/75F but I do not profess to be at all expert in this species so I will not argue.  But I do think you need to rethink the temperature for the neons if you keep them, and with the Betta.
 
On the cycling, bacterial supplements do have the scientific evidence to show that they speed up the process to varying degrees depending upon the specific product, so they cannot do harm and may benefit.  The API Quick Start is not a product I have used, but they are a reputable company and they do say this product contains nitrifying bacteria.  If you have it, use it.  This is certainly safer that using filter media or substrate from another aquarist's tank, or worse yet, froma store; the pathogens that might be introduced to your aquarium is not something you want.  This is much the same as introducing new fish without quarantining, except you cannot "quarantine" media/substrate.
 
If you retain the fish, monitor the ammonia and nitrite.  Ammonia at 0.25 is not high...don't misunderstand me, it is always dangerous above zero, but this is not too high all things considered here...but I would use an ammonia detoxifying water conditioner such as Ultimate or Prime.  These change ammonia into the harmless ammonium which the bacteria will still use.  If nitrite appears, both of these will handle that for 24-36 hours, so daily water changes of 50% using either of these will get you safely through that period.
 
Byron.

 

[ShinySideUp]

One note about the API test kit. It is quite common for the ammonia test to show a hint of ammonia even when it is patently obvious there isn't any (in fresh water for instance). My own ammonia test usually shows 0.25 PPM and I've put that down to the chemicals involved in the kit rather than what's in the water as it has done it since I got the kit two years ago.

 

[DeanoL83]

One note about the API test kit. It is quite common for the ammonia test to show a hint of ammonia even when it is patently obvious there isn't any (in fresh water for instance). My own ammonia test usually shows 0.25 PPM and I've put that down to the chemicals involved in the kit rather than what's in the water as it has done it since I got the kit two years ago.

 
I'm so glad you mentioned this.  I have been doing regular water changes, and it always looks like I have 0.25ppm ammonia even though I have zero nitrites.  I thought it must be a problem I had at first, but then thought maybe that's just what the zero looks like and the colour chart is slightly off.  For the life of me i've never been able to get it pure yellow like the chart, it always has a slight greenish tinge so I normally say its somewhere between 0 and 0.25.
 
Thought it was only me   Cheers