Newbie - High Nitrite, Cant Get It Down. Please Help

[kaydee]

Hi

I am a complete newbie to keeping fish. I’ve trawled the internet and read the books to give my self a good basic knowledge on keeping fish, however there are a couple of problems I have already got stuck with and would like the advice of experienced fish keepers.

I'm currently cycling my 240Ltr tank with 12 Zebra Danios and that seems to be going ok, although I'm only on day 4 so a long way to go yet. The only query I have about that is that I have Nitrite readings before I’ve had any Ammonia readings. I though Ammonia reading show before Nitrites?

The problem I have is with an additional tank which I acquired at the weekend. This came set up with 10 young Cichlids. My reasons for purchasing this tank were that my 240Ltr tank has been set up for Cichlids so once cycled I was going to put the Cichlids in to that and use the smaller tank as a hospital/quarantine.

When I collected this tank I kept as much water as I could and probably topped up with an additional 2 ltr. The fish were then put back to their tank. Later that evening I tested the water and the Nitrite was very high 3.3 mg/l and so was the Nitrate but no Ammonia. The fish were also showing signs of Nitrite poisoning, gasping for air at the surface. I immediately did a 20% water change and also added some salt to help the fish. By the morning the fish were acting ok, but the Nitrite remains high. I have done a 20% water change every day and today I have also added some Nutrafin Cycle but I just cant get the Nitrite down.

Can any one help me further? Or does anyone know why this has happened? I can only presume the tank was not established or that by moving it, it has stirred up this Nitrite spike. I'm concerned I'm going to loose the fish and that I’ve failed at the first hurdle.

Any help or advice would be greatfullly recived

Thanks in advance

Kerry

 

[roadmaster]

Hi

I am a complete newbie to keeping fish. I’ve trawled the internet and read the books to give my self a good basic knowledge on keeping fish, however there are a couple of problems I have already got stuck with and would like the advice of experienced fish keepers.

I'm currently cycling my 240Ltr tank with 12 Zebra Danios and that seems to be going ok, although I'm only on day 4 so a long way to go yet. The only query I have about that is that I have Nitrite readings before I’ve had any Ammonia readings. I though Ammonia reading show before Nitrites?

The problem I have is with an additional tank which I acquired at the weekend. This came set up with 10 young Cichlids. My reasons for purchasing this tank were that my 240Ltr tank has been set up for Cichlids so once cycled I was going to put the Cichlids in to that and use the smaller tank as a hospital/quarantine.

When I collected this tank I kept as much water as I could and probably topped up with an additional 2 ltr. The fish were then put back to their tank. Later that evening I tested the water and the Nitrite was very high 3.3 mg/l and so was the Nitrate but no Ammonia. The fish were also showing signs of Nitrite poisoning, gasping for air at the surface. I immediately did a 20% water change and also added some salt to help the fish. By the morning the fish were acting ok, but the Nitrite remains high. I have done a 20% water change every day and today I have also added some Nutrafin Cycle but I just cant get the Nitrite down.

Can any one help me further? Or does anyone know why this has happened? I can only presume the tank was not established or that by moving it, it has stirred up this Nitrite spike. I'm concerned I'm going to loose the fish and that I’ve failed at the first hurdle.

Any help or advice would be greatfullly recived

Thanks in advance

Kerry

With fishes in the tank, Your only recourse is water changes unless you can borrow some filter material or substrate from a friends tank?
I would perform larger water changes on the order of 50 percent and another ten to twelve hours later until nitrites are lowered to near zero.
I too doubt that the tank holding fish was established but it could have been.If filter material was not kept wet and or it has been replaced, or cleaned in tapwatwer,then this could have resulted in ammonia and or nitrite spike.
I would recommend dechlorinator.. PRIME for any new water added to either tank.
Doubtful that nutra fin cycle will hurt anything, but equally doubtful of any benefits from my expieriences with this bacterial supplement.

 

[Curiosity101]

Ammonia poisoning is the one that causing gasping at the surface. So if there is no ammonia showing then maybe there isn't enough gas exchange going on at the surface. If you make sure the outlet of the filter is rippling the surface then it should be fine. But if the surface is pretty much still then that could be what was causing the gasping.

I reckon you're right as to the two possible reasons the new fish might've been gasping.

Either:
A - It wasn't actually fully cycled when you picked it up (this could also explain the gasping if they've just been through the high ammonia part).

or

B - The move kicked up alot of organics from the bottom of the tank (if it's gravel) and so there has been a hike in the amount of ammonia being produced. Or the alternative is that some of the bacteria died back if the filter/filter pads weren't kept wet... could that have happened?

TBH I don't think you need much advice really, you sound like you know roughly about cycling, and you seem to know what to test for and what is bad. The only thing I would say is, is that you need to do MUCH bigger water changes. You really need to try your best to keep the ammonia (if/when it spikes which hopefully it wont now) and nitrites below 0.25ppm whenever possible. I know it's a massive bind doing such a big water change on the 240l... but that's the down side to doing a fish in cycle. If you don't want to put the fish through death by poisoning then large water changes are the only answer.

As for 'how big should the water change be' (if you were wondering). Test your tap water. If your tap water shows 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite then you can basically just work it out percentage wise.
You have 3.3ppm nitrite, you want 0.25 or less. 0.25 is 7.5% of 3.3 so you would need to remove 92.5% in one go (and refil with tap water) to get it down to 0.25 straight away... or (as that's such a ridiculously large amount of water!) perhaps do two large changes... like 2x70% or 3x60% changes etc.
2x70% changes taking it from 3.3 -> 0.99 (3.3x0.3 if you were wondering) -> 0.3 (0.99x0.3)

Sorry if the math is very obvious and basic, but I figured it was worth mentioning just incase.

 

[coldcazzie]

The only thing I would say is, is that you need to do MUCH bigger water changes. You really need to try your best to keep the ammonia (if/when it spikes which hopefully it wont now) and nitrites below 0.25ppm whenever possible. I know it's a massive bind doing such a big water change on the 240l... but that's the down side to doing a fish in cycle. If you don't want to put the fish through death by poisoning then large water changes are the only answer.

As for 'how big should the water change be' (if you were wondering). Test your tap water. If your tap water shows 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite then you can basically just work it out percentage wise.
You have 3.3ppm nitrite, you want 0.25 or less. 0.25 is 7.5% of 3.3 so you would need to remove 92.5% in one go (and refil with tap water) to get it down to 0.25 straight away... or (as that's such a ridiculously large amount of water!) perhaps do two large changes... like 2x70% or 3x60% changes etc.
2x70% changes taking it from 3.3 -> 0.99 (3.3x0.3 if you were wondering) -> 0.3 (0.99x0.3)

Sorry if the math is very obvious and basic, but I figured it was worth mentioning just incase.

Agree with C101 on this multiple large water changes until your ammonia and nitrite are both 0.25 at the MOST, preferably 0, and then change as much water as you have to to keep them there. The reason the level hasn't changed is because you have only removed 20% of the water and therefore 20% of the nitrite, which takes your reading from 3.3ppm to 2.64ppm (not that your test kit will be that accurate!), which is still WAY above 0.25 - hence the comment about it not being enough water. Even a 50% change won't be enough. 50% of 2.64 is 1.32, which again, is way above the maximum of 0.25ppm.

On another note, I'm pretty sure nitrite poisoning will also cause gasping, because nitrite acts on fish like carbon monoxide would on humans - causing breathlessness and low oxygen levels within the body. Sorry C101 - not trying to undermine you

 

[Curiosity101]

On another note, I'm pretty sure nitrite poisoning will also cause gasping, because nitrite acts on fish like carbon monoxide would on humans - causing breathlessness and low oxygen levels within the body. Sorry C101 - not trying to undermine you

I'm purely going on what a read in a couple of places awhile back. It only really listed the affects it had on the CNS, it never said it 'didn't' cause gasping, or mention other possible affects. And double that with the fact that normally when people come on here with high nitrite the fish have been barrel rolling/twitching etc. I just took it as the only affect. Definitely wouldn't stake my life on it not affecting breathing though, you may be completely correct.

 

[Curiosity101]

Just did a quick search on the uni journal system and came up with this

Nitrite transfer across the erythrocytic membrane leads to oxidation of haemoglobin to methaemoglobin (metHb), compromising blood O2 transport. Other haem proteins are also oxidised. Hyperventilation is observed, and eventually tissue O2 shortage becomes reflected in elevated lactate concentrations.

From a paper in 2003 so you are completely correct coldcazzie

 

[kaydee]

Thanks for your advice.

The high Nitrite readings are from my small tank not the 240 ltr so I will perform a huge water change later and see if this helps at all. I’m not getting any Ammonia readings just Nitrite and Nitrate. The filter is disturbing the water surface so I happy that the water is aerated adequately.

When I do the water change later, if I were to remove say 75% do I keep the fish in? Sorry if that sounds a bit thick.

Sorry, its confusing that I have 2 tanks on the go . Both of which seem to be in a cycle aghhhh if cycling one fish tank wasn’t bad enough! BUT I apprechiate any advice as this is all new to me.

Thanks again

Kerry

 

[coldcazzie]

On another note, I'm pretty sure nitrite poisoning will also cause gasping, because nitrite acts on fish like carbon monoxide would on humans - causing breathlessness and low oxygen levels within the body. Sorry C101 - not trying to undermine you

I'm purely going on what a read in a couple of places awhile back. It only really listed the affects it had on the CNS, it never said it 'didn't' cause gasping, or mention other possible affects. And double that with the fact that normally when people come on here with high nitrite the fish have been barrel rolling/twitching etc. I just took it as the only affect. Definitely wouldn't stake my life on it not affecting breathing though, you may be completely correct.

Hmmm... you may have a point!

I'm not really sure it matters much though - either way, fish gasping is bad and indicates a problem in need of rectification, so lets just leave it at that lol

Thanks for your advice.

The high Nitrite readings are from my small tank not the 240 ltr so I will perform a huge water change later and see if this helps at all. I’m not getting any Ammonia readings just Nitrite and Nitrate. The filter is disturbing the water surface so I happy that the water is aerated adequately.

When I do the water change later, if I were to remove say 75% do I keep the fish in? Sorry if that sounds a bit thick.

Sorry, its confusing that I have 2 tanks on the go . Both of which seem to be in a cycle aghhhh if cycling one fish tank wasn’t bad enough! BUT I apprechiate any advice as this is all new to me.

Thanks again

Kerry

Yes keep the fish in. As long as they have enough room to swim around in they will be fine. The effects of a large water change will be much less than the effects of swimming around in and breathing poisonous water! Just make sure to temperature match and dechlorinate

Wow serious cross-posting going on here!

 

[rob158]

to the forum,

 

[kaydee]

So a ive compleated a 75% ish water change this evening and the Nitrites have lowered to 0.8 still too high I know, so i will repeat the water change in the morning and continue to do so until they are at safe levels. The fact that I have good Nitrate readings and 0 Ammonia readings leads me to belive that perhaps the tank was established but the moved stirred up the Nitrite spike?

Only time will tell I guess if Ive managed to save the little blighters, i hope so as I've already got attached to them

will you keep you posted

Kerry

 

[Skins]

Hello Kerry and welcome to the forum.
I see your in good hands already with C101 and Coldcazzie.

Keith.

 

[coldcazzie]

So a ive compleated a 75% ish water change this evening and the Nitrites have lowered to 0.8 still too high I know, so i will repeat the water change in the morning and continue to do so until they are at safe levels. The fact that I have good Nitrate readings and 0 Ammonia readings leads me to belive that perhaps the tank was established but the moved stirred up the Nitrite spike?

Only time will tell I guess if Ive managed to save the little blighters, i hope so as I've already got attached to them

will you keep you posted

Kerry

You're trying and you're listening to advice - these are both positive things which set you in good stead. Even if mistakes are made you will learn from them and won't make them (hopefully) again!

It would be worth during your water changes to do a very thorough gravel vac every time to ensure any detritus that may be contributing to a spike is removed. Also cut back on your feeding to about once every 3 days. Even if we are talking about a semi-cycled tank here, because ammonia -> nitrite if you reduce the amount of ammonia produced by the fish there will also be less nitrite. Also might be worth making sure your filter is clean (ie, no build up of dirt in it) by rinsing gently in old tank water, as even build up in the filter can contribute to ammonia levels in your water column. Just don't clean too thoroughly or too often as you are still cycling (maybe once a fortnight), and don't clean in tap water!