Newbie Help.... Please!

[4thdesign]

Hi,

I bought a 85litre tropical fish tank 5 days ago, followed advice about cleaning gravel etc etc

Temperature is 24-25 degrees and I have tested water ph level, which is 7 - 7.5

2 days ago, I bought 4 x xray tetras, advice given was they were one of the hardier fishes for a new tank to start with. This morning, they are all dead.

Can anyone give me some advice whether the ph level is too high (having read some information, I believe this is an ok level) also, temperature range can be from 22 - 29 degrees. So I am now sat here wondering what the next step is, or where I might be going wrong?

Any help will be gratefully received.

 

[JHR]

There are other water conditions you must consider as well as pH levels.

Ammonia
Nitrate
Nitrite
Hardness

These are all other water conditions you have to consider and test before adding fish.

There is a fishless cycling topic on this forum that will tell you everything you need to know buddy.

 

[sadguppy]

Your tank is now in a fish-in cycle, and it is extremely likely they died from ammonia poisoning due to the uncycled tank, known as new tank syndrome.

Read the pinned topics in the beginners' section for detailed information but my advice is not to add any fish and whilst your tank is empty, get hold of some household ammonia and do a fishless cycle.

 

[JHR]

This link will be invaluable to you.

If you read thoroughly like I did when I started you should have little if any fatalities.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

2 days ago, I bought 4 x xray tetras, advice given was they were one of the hardier fishes for a new tank to start with. This morning, they are all dead.

Firstly, I'm sorry your start to the hobby has ended so tragically. Even in an "uncycled" tank, something sounds amiss here for the tetras to die within two days, such as not using dechlorinator or the fish store had very different water chemistry to what you have and you then added them too quickly to this different water. X-Ray Tetra are very adaptable compared to many South American tetras, they are found in a range of water conditions from soft acidic water through to brakish, so your pH should not have been an issue.

Your source of advice (the fish store by any chance?) was poor as regards starting up a new tank and it being safe to add fish so soon. Once a new tank and filter have been setup with dechlorinated water, for the benefit of new fish you need to get the filter occupied with two different essential bacteria, one that processes fish waste (ammonia) and another that processes the nitrite produced by the ammonia eating bacteria. "Fishless cycling" needs you to add safe household ammonia to the tank, typically aiming to hold a concentration of ~4ppm, quite possibly for upto 60 days. Once your bacteria are removing all traces of ammonia and nitrite within 12 hours for 7 consecutive days (known as a "qualifying week") using a liquid test kit to take water samples, your tank/filter is regarded as being "cycled" and ready for fish.

Have a read of http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/ for more details.

 

[Teacher Martyn]

I thank my lucky stars that I bought my tank, let it sit empty for a few weeks while I read, researched, read, joined this forum, researched and read some more, listened to conflicting advice from local fish shops, and read some more.

Then, I filled it. Dechlorinated it and then fishless-cycled it.

Cycle complete, I added a few fish.

I didn't add any more for a while.

I've done weekly water changes, kept an eye on water chemistry levels and all seems well.

Good luck with yours now you've sought advice on this really helpful forum.

 

[Akasha72]

as the others have said it sounds like you got yourself into a fish-in cycle but there are usually other signs that fish are suffering from ammonia poisoning.

They will either head to the bottom, lay on the gravel with clamped fins gasping or they'll head for the top and stick their noses out of the water and gasp.

Did you notice any of these signs? IMO a couple of days, 4 small fish in an 84 litre tank shouldn't have created that much ammonia to kill them so suddenly. It's possible they were already weak when you got them.

As the other replies say you should head over to the beginners section and read up on cycling your filter. There are three ways to do it (I'll try and keep it simple) -

1. leave the tank empty of fish and add household ammonia and test daily for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and record the results. The ammonia will go sky high first. The it will fall and nitrIte will rise. Then when you are getting readings of zero ammonia and zero nitrIte and a low reading of NitrAte you can start adding plants and fish but I'd recommend you add fish slowly. A couple a week will give the filter chance to support their waste.

2. Ask your lfs or someone you know with a mature tank (running over 6 months) to give you a piece of their mucky sponge. This will have a small amount of good bacteria on it. Add it to your filter and add a couple of fish to create waste to support it. Keep checking the water stats though and be ready to syphon water if ammonia starts to climb.

3. This is the hardest one and not one I'd recommend really. I did it and I'd never do it again. Add a couple of fish each week and keep checking the water. You will almost definitely end up changing water every day or even twice a day to keep ammonia under control but you won't be looking at an empty tank for the next few weeks/months. You can try adding some bottled bacteria if you decide to do it this way. The jury is still out on whether it does anything. I believe it to be helpful but others don't.


Which ever one you choose you will need a water testing kit. Don't buy strips as they are so inaccurate. I can recommend the API freshwater master test kit (it's cheaper on ebay/amazon than at the lfs) as an easy one for the beginner.


Good luck and if you don't understand anything don't be afraid to ask. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Akasha

 

[4thdesign]

Just to add:

I have been testing for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate every day before I got the fish, and tested since having the fish.

Now the fish have died, I have just tested the water again for all 4 (including ph)

Here are my results:

Ph - 7.5
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0.1
Nitrate - <5

So to me, these results are GOOD. Or am I being completely dumb here?

I am thinking, I have been given sick fish, and dont see my water being the problem here.

What do you guys think??

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

The thing is, fresh tap water would normally contain no ammonia or nitrite, so you would not normally get positive results for these in the few days before you added the fish. Like I wrote earlier, a new filter (or new media to go into a filter) has none of the essential bacteria on it that are needed to keep the water safe for fish.

Buying and adding fish to an unready tank is called "fish in cycling" and it is a lot more stressful on you and the fish, because you will need to change 75-95% of the water whenever you get a positive reading for ammonia or nitrite, which could be as much as twice daily in the early stages and this could go on for months (longer than the typical 2 months for "fishless cycling.")

 

[4thdesign]

The thing is, fresh tap water would normally contain no ammonia or nitrite, so you would not normally get positive results for these in the few days before you added the fish. Like I wrote earlier, a new filter (or new media to go into a filter) has none of the essential bacteria on it that are needed to keep the water safe for fish.

Buying and adding fish to an unready tank is called "fish in cycling" and it is a lot more stressful on you and the fish, because you will need to change 75-95% of the water whenever you get a positive reading for ammonia or nitrite, which could be as much as twice daily in the early stages and this could go on for months (longer than the typical 2 months for "fishless cycling.")

Thanks for the reply, as recommended by the LFS, I have added water conditioner when I filled the tank up. Wonder if this might have something to do with it. Am happy to change water as necessary, and have been testing regularly as mentioned. Just bought some more fish, call me a fool, but.... I still think the xray tetras were poorly. This time I have Danios, which I have read numerous times are very hardy. If these die, then I have something odd going on !!

 

[JDs4me]

Hi, just need to advise you to listen to the good sound advice you are given here...you obviously want to keep your fish alive and well or otherwise I assume you wouldn't be here asking for advice in the first place.

So you have bought more fish, even though the advice was to follow the fishless cycle provided...you are now in need of following the fish-in cycle. Folks here will continue to give you good sound advice because they care about the welfare of the fish we keep...but only you can decide whether to follow that good advice, or ignore it as you seem to have done.

So check out that fish-in cycle thread;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/page__view__findpost__p__2300022

and good luck to you and your fish!!

 

[4thdesign]

Thanks,

But havent ignored it, have read over the last few days different methods, and have decided to go for infish cycling. Was always going to do this anyway.

I have my testing kit, its being used every day, twice today so far as I now have fish in the tank, and most likely going to replace the water tomorrow.

Its all in hand, and apologies if I have given the wrong impression of I dont care, I certainly do, and looking forward to ensuring my tank and fish are at the very best they can be. I understand it takes time, but am prepared for the long haul !

 

[JHR]

Well when you've got it all cycled you can really start to enjoy fish keeping.

Good luck, looking forward to more topics with photos!

 

[HAMBONE]

Ammonia.. that did them in..

 

[Akasha72]

Ammonia.. that did them in..

He's already stated he tested for ammonia and it was Zero. The nitrite was high though so that won't have helped matters.

When fish are transported to fish stores they are often transported with 50+ in bags and they can be on the move for 48 hours in those bags. So break that down - 50 fish in a bag for 2 days being shook around all peeing and pooing from their last meal before being shoved in said bag = they arrive at the lfs stressed, ammonia poisoned and only the strong will survive this.

You only have to go to an lfs on the delivery day and see for yourself what goes on. A reputable lfs will float the bags in a darkened tank before adding them to the tank. They will also stick a sign on the tanks with the new fish saying 'Not For Sale' or 'Quarenteened'. Hopefully they'll do this for at least 48 hours if they care about the fish. This will weed out the weak ones that arn't gonna survive what they've just been put through.

Now the lfs's that care about money and couldn't give a dam about the fish will have them on sale within a few hours ... if you've fallen prey to this 4thdesign (and I suspect you may have) then it explains why your fish all died.

Personally I'd find another lfs before getting anymore fish or find out what day delivery is and avoid the place for a good 4 days.

All that said (sorry for the long rant lol) I really hope you have better luck with the Danio's. Keep checking the water and doing water changes when needed and it should go better this time

Akasha