Newbie: Cycling Problem?

[TheWidowMaker86]

Hi, i am as new to the forum as i am to fish keeping.. so first off id like to apologise if the topics have been covered already (tried searching).

Equipment:
55 gal(UK)/240litre tank
Eheim Ecco pro 2036
Hydor 300w EXT heater (for when i get barbs)
substrate: Black tahitian moon sand.
Lighting: T8 tube

i have kept a note of what i been doing so far as follows:
-filter run for two days
-got 5 shubunkins (2-3 inch)
-35% water change after 3 days.
-stopped feeding for 2 days.
-nitrite test 0.25
-started feeding, nitrite test 0.25, 20% water change, 2tbl spoon Aqua salt. another nitrite test 0.25
-4 days later nitrite test 0.25
-2days later ammonia 1.0, nitrite 1.0, nitrate 10. 40% water change, add 2tbl spoon of salt. nitrite test 0.5. (yesterday)

Added info: feeding once per day unless stated above, the lighting is on for 7hours a day consistent timing. Feeding Flakes (recommendations for varied diet?)

I got the goldies to start the cycle (ill advised i know). But now i love them and will get another tank later for tropicals. can anyone comment on my cycle process and if theres something im doing wrong or have overlooked.

also.. i noticed, one of my shubunkins is gaining gold colour, i have read in places that they do change but couldnt find out why, or if it has anything to do with what im doing. any thoughts?

I didnt have the other tests kits at hand except nitrite due to unexpected finance problems, but thats sorted since i can go to LFS to do it ( before you all say why didnt i do ammonia test first etc).

Im sorry for any ignorance and your advice will be appreciated.

 

[TheWidowMaker86]

Anybody

 

[fluttermoth]

All I'd say is; your tank won't be big enough for the shubunkins long term; they can grow to a foot long and should, in all honesty, be in a pond.

Apart from that, test your water every day (maybe twice, morning and evening, so you will need to get your own kit) and do a massive (75 or 80%) change any time you get any readings for ammonia or nitrite. Seeing as you have a heater, you might want to turn the temp up a bit as the bacteria will grow faster and it won't hurt your fish for a short time. Put it up to 20 or 22°C.

I would stop adding aquarium salt; water changes and reducing ammonia and nitrite is better than 'band-aiding' with salt and forcing the fish to suffer it.

 

[TheWidowMaker86]

All I'd say is; your tank won't be big enough for the shubunkins long term; they can grow to a foot long and should, in all honesty, be in a pond.

Apart from that, test your water every day (maybe twice, morning and evening, so you will need to get your own kit) and do a massive (75 or 80%) change any time you get any readings for ammonia or nitrite. Seeing as you have a heater, you might want to turn the temp up a bit as the bacteria will grow faster and it won't hurt your fish for a short time. Put it up to 20 or 22°C.

I would stop adding aquarium salt; water changes and reducing ammonia and nitrite is better than 'band-aiding' with salt and forcing the fish to suffer it.

Hi, thanks for the response, and i will be rehousing the shubunkins soon (pics available if interested)as for now i did another test today:
Ammonia- 8.0
Nitrite- 5.0
Nitrate- 40

Alarmed by this i did a 60% water change. then a nitrite test again reading 0.25

I just come on to check for replies.. so im glad i did what you pretty much said. Few more questions...
How beneficial is the salt? ( i have stopped using it on your advise)
how long should i keep the heater running?
Any comments on my cycle's progess? is it normal/expected? is it going wrong? how long do you think until the cycle is complete?

Someone at 'pets at home' recommended 'nitra zorb' (i go there to do my water test), what are your thoughts on this?

Thanks for your help!

 

[fluttermoth]

Ammonia 8

You need to keep changing water to keep that ammonia down; it needs to not get higher than 0.25 between changes. The salt (alledgedly) helps to protect the fish from poor water conditions; I can't remember quite how now, but I've never used it and don't ever advise its use personally, though some people do (a lot of fishkeeping is art and opinion mixed with a little bit of science, lol!)

It's hard to tell how your cycle is going; you're probably quite a way along as you have high nitrite as well as ammonia (that needs to be kept down as well btw; it's not as toxic as ammonia, but still needs to be kept as near zero). You'll know when it's done as you'll have zero readings for ammonia and nitrite for seven days with no water changes; then you can switch the heater off and let the temp come down naturally (which is better for the fish).

It's hard to say how long it might take to cycle; I've heard everything from 2 weeks to 70 or more days, so lets just keep our fingers crossed for yours!

As for the nitra zorb, well, firstly I don't recommend the use of any 'chemicals' apart from dechlorinator, except in exceptional circumstances and secondly it won't help you cycle if all the ammonia is being absorbed by that; I'm not that experienced in it's use though tbh. I'd rely on good, regular large water changes though.

Best of luck; do post again if there's anything else

 

[TheWidowMaker86]

Hey, heres what i have done so far:
4am nitrite test- 1.0
9.30pm nitrite test- 1.0

Im just worried that after doing the huge water change how comes the nirtite level has reached 1.0 so quickly from 0.25.. is this normal? Also.. from what you know of my tank so far.. how much and how often should i be doing water changes? considering im using a bucket aswell.. (its alot of work so i hope i dont have to run 9 times back and forward with a bucket twice a day lol)

I cant get the heater running yet as i didnt set it up and when i tried today, the pipes wouldnt fit so mon/tues i shall get converters to do that.

That being said.. im attempting an Iwagumi setup, which is my inspiration and after the cycle is complete im looking to add some plants. pretty irrelevant at this stage but cant help the excitement! lol.

I'll put pics up of my progress if you would like to see them! Thanks again!

 

[fluttermoth]

I'm afraid the levels can jump up that quckly if your water changes aren't large enough. I'd be doing ones that just left enough for the fish to swim upright in. If you can you manage to get a hose you can add enough dechlor for the whole tank in the tank and trickle the new water in with the hose.

As your fish are small it may take a bit longer to creep up if you do a bigger water change

 

[TheWidowMaker86]

Hey, so the heaters been running for a while... the results are still the same after a few days, im managing them though..

My LFS said not to do any water changes?? but had a theory to back it all up.. im still doing changes at the moment though.

One Thing i researched and couldnt find absolutely anywhere:

I want to swap my shubunkins for barbs as planned... i dont know if i should do that during the cycle process, if i do i can raise the temp aswell for the BB.

I understand that your tank is only cycled according to how much ammonia it gets and adding fish would trigger a mini cycle.. but goldies are messy fish so would swapping 4 shubunkins for 7 barbs be okay? maybe there would be less waste as barbs are not as messy as shubunkins?

I still do not have any plants or hardscape at the moment and would adding these as priority help the cycle?? i was thinking of adding them after the cycle and barbs are sorted?

Cheers again!

 

[fluttermoth]

Hey, so the heaters been running for a while... the results are still the same after a few days, im managing them though..

My LFS said not to do any water changes?? but had a theory to back it all up.. im still doing changes at the moment though.

LFS are always saying this; I have no idea why; carry on doing the water changes!

One Thing i researched and couldnt find absolutely anywhere:

I want to swap my shubunkins for barbs as planned... i dont know if i should do that during the cycle process, if i do i can raise the temp aswell for the BB.

I understand that your tank is only cycled according to how much ammonia it gets and adding fish would trigger a mini cycle.. but goldies are messy fish so would swapping 4 shubunkins for 7 barbs be okay? maybe there would be less waste as barbs are not as messy as shubunkins?

There would be less waste with barbs, yes; trops, because they're warmer, have a slightly more efficent metabolism than coldwater fish. Wouldn't it be better to return the goldies and complete a fishless cycle before you get the barbs? Or are you determined to stick with fish-in?

I still do not have any plants or hardscape at the moment and would adding these as priority help the cycle?? i was thinking of adding them after the cycle and barbs are sorted?

Cheers again!

You should definitely get some scaping in if you have fish in there; it's not nice for fish to be an are bare tank; it's their home. Goldies need to nibble on plants anyway; it's part of their natural behaviour

 

[TheWidowMaker86]

hmm, i dont mind going with fishless cycle route.. but would it interrupt my learning from this experience anyhow? i learn alot more from mistakes although i do read up on everything but experiencing it helps me learn in a much better way, if i did fish in cycling... i wouldnt have learned how fish behave through the ammonia/nitrite to be able to spot it incase i get a random spike later on.

That being said, if you really recommend i should go fishless considering what i said.. i will proudly accept your advice being the novice to the hobby!

 

[fluttermoth]

I think a good fishless cycle is a valuable thing to do; you only ever need to do it once you see; I did my first when it was a really new, radical idea, with fish food and an ammonia test, about 18 years ago now.

All my tanks ever since have just been cloned off that first one; I still have some of the same sponges going to this day! So I do think it's worth it.

Plus, you might still make mistakes, it's just far less stressful because you don't risk killing things as you do with a fish-in.

It's just a valuable experience as fish-in; you learn just as much about keeping water (which is really what fishkeeping is all about! we keep water, water keeps fish and the nitrogen cycle is exactly the same.

 

[Caprichoso]

hmm, i dont mind going with fishless cycle route.. but would it interrupt my learning from this experience anyhow? i learn alot more from mistakes although i do read up on everything but experiencing it helps me learn in a much better way, if i did fish in cycling... i wouldnt have learned how fish behave through the ammonia/nitrite to be able to spot it incase i get a random spike later on.

That being said, if you really recommend i should go fishless considering what i said.. i will proudly accept your advice being the novice to the hobby!

You will learn plenty when doing a fish-less cycle. Lesson # 1-Patience. It's a good idea though because it can save you the possible heartache of fish death that you can get when trying to do a fish-in cycle. Fish-in cycles can be done successfully, but if you don't have a lot of experience it can be quite catastrophic. I do agree though, you learn things very quickly when mistakes are made or bad things happen.

Good luck with your tank

 

[TheWidowMaker86]

Hey, a few days after my last post i got nitrites of 0! i was so happy.. i carried on with regular nitrite test and it stayed at 0.

I went to pets at home today to test everything, ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0, nitrate 0.

im not sure how to react about about nitrate being 0, the only changes ive made to the tank is adding an aeration kit. i only done one water change (10%) since last post.

Is there something wrong with my tank? or am i just paranoid? Thanks!