New To Low Tech Planted Tanks

[cowgirluntamed]

Ok, well, I wanted to do plants for my 20 gallon tetra tank. But I thought I'd start up a 10 gallon tank just to see what plants I could grow in my water and light conditions before I bother my tetras with moving things around and planting! Lol.
 
Anyway, I bought some plants off of ebay, which I'm a bit miffed at the seller but that's a different story. I bought dwarf sag, corkscrew val, and water sprite. Well, the post office had delays. The water sprite basically came in dead, and a lot of the corkscrew val was damaged(bad, nasty looking roots and yellow leaves). The dwarf sag is doing awesome! None of it died whatsoever(it was in a plastic bag inside the plastic bag with the other two plants). It is now creating runners and I plan on maybe moving some of that over to the 20 gallon soon. I did decided to float the val and the water sprite just to "see" what would happen. Turns out, even on almost dead leaves(turning black) on the water sprite I'm sprouting new babies! One root system that I planted is actually growing a couple of new stems. The corkscrew val, however, doesn't look so great. I have some small leaves starting to grow in but now they just don't seem to be doing well. One plant I have in the back(probably getting a bit more of my LED light) is sort of, well, not growing straight up but to the side? *shrugs* Not a clue on that one but it's the healthiest one of the bunch.
 
Mostly, I would like to know if there is anything else I should be doing(setup and such is below) and what other kinds of plants I can do for a newbie in a low-tech setup so I can start adding fish by the silent cycle method? I'm also starting to get hair algea, not exactly worried but I don't really want to "cycle" it and get more. I basically want this to be a male guppy and shrimp tank. But I also want to have plants in my 20 gallon for my 5 glow light tetras, 8 black neon tetras, and my one female bristlenose. So any and all suggestions would be helpful. I'm not really into carpet type plants though but don't mind the rest of them as long as they are easy to care for and don't grow way out of hand! I do know I want to buy more water sprite but other than that I'm not sure(maybe some anubias and java fern types?). Anyway, here are my water parameters and other stuff I'm currently doing for my 10 gallon, and then I'll also put what I have in my 20 gallon. Thanks for any help!!
 
10 gallon setup
 
Aquaclear 20 filter with a foam insert, carbon insert, bioMax insert. I have this set on it's lowest setting. It seemed to be pushing the fragile plants around too much and even now all my floating water sprite is stuck to the intake so I need to find something to put over that so they won't get damaged.
 
Marineland LED 18 inch strip light(not a plant light)--says brightness is 234 lumens, 7800k. It also has 3 "moonlights" that are 460nm actinic/blue LED. All lights, including blue lights are on. I do not use those lights at night though. I don't have it on a timer(though I have bought one, just haven't set it up), and probably have the lights on for maybe around 13 hours a day? Not sure exactly. I can, and probably should, change this if need be!
 
I also have a small air stone in there that goes 24/7, not on high, maybe medium-low air flow?
 
I've been dosing with Aqueon Aquarium Plant Food once a week since I have no fish in the tank at the moment.
 
Temp is 77 F.
 
Water parameters
ph-8
Am-0.50
Ni-0.25
Na-10
GH-10 degrees or 179ppm
KH-9 degrees or 161.1ppm
 
(This tank is starting to do a small cycle because of the decaying plants. On the 8th, when I set this up, my parameters were normal for what I usually have in my well water and my 20 gallon, except for KH and GH, but I will get to that with the 20 gallon setup. ph-8.2, Am-0.25(this is in my well water), Ni-0, Na-10)
 
The water from my tap(well water), I measured on Feb 16 when I finally got a KH/GH test kit to go along with my API master test kit.
ph-8.2, Am-0.5, Ni-0, Na-10,   KH- 18 degrees(don't know ppm on this as chart didn't go this high!) and GH was 19 degrees(also don't know ppm).
 
As for my 20 gallon setup(no plants! just fish), I was having issues with this so my tests since February seem a bit odd to me. I had opted to dose prime in my water changes(I did go ahead and dose it to the tank the very first time before water changes) instead of putting in my Marineland Ammonia Neutralizing Crystals since I had run out. I did this because I couldn't get my nitrates below 40, even with 25% water changes every few days!(Sick fish, meds said to change water). Anyway, long story short, I stopped using prime and went back to putting the ammonia neutralizer back into my filter. So the last time I took these parameters was on the 8th.
ph-8.3(not sure why this was up??)
Am-0.15(yay! never been that low on my reading!)
Ni-0
Na-10
KH-15 degrees(around 250ppm??)
GH-8 degrees(143 ppm)
 
temp is 77 F.
 
I have no idea why since adding that ammonia nuetralizer that my GH dropped like that....and why it's so much lower in my 10 gallon with the plants than my regular tap water unless it's just the plants utilizing the stuff in my water??
 
The lighting for my 20 gallon is the same, except a longer light to fit the 20 gallon. Right now it also has a long air stone down one side giving out a good amount of bubbles, which I can change if I do plant the tank.
 
It has a Marineland Biowheel 150 filter with a cut out filter pad(just pad, no carbon, it was cheaper this way!) and 16 tablespoons of the Marineland Ammonia neutralizing crystals behind that but before the biowheel of course.
 
Again, thanks for all the tips in advance! I know I do like my dwarf sag, I just hope it will get shorter, for some reason most of it reached the top of my 10 gallon when I got it, but those leaves started to die off(not all though yet), and the new leaves are coming in a lot shorter like I read about. I do like water sprite, which I want to get more of, but any other suggestions so I could plant my 10 gallon out and do up my 20 as well I'd appreciate! Thanks again guys!
   Kristen
 
ps-if I missed anything...let me know!!!

 

[Byron]

I'll begin with a quick word on the change to the size of the Dwarf Sagittaria, Sagittaria subulata being the species.  "Dwarf" is not always the case with this plant; some aquarists report that the brighter the light, the shorter it grows (which is normal for many plants) while others say environmental conditions factor in (light & nutrients).  In my 70g, it grows taller, but not at all rapidly so it is not much.  If you are having good luck with it, well done.
 
To your filters.  I would not replace the carbon cartridges, just rinse them regularly.  Many of us believe that activated carbon adsorbs some nutrients plants can use, while some maintain this is nonsense.  It does adsorb DOC (dissolved organic carbon) which is useful for plants, so I am staying with the side that recommends not using carbon in planted tanks.  Eventually it will wear out and become mere filter media, so it is up to you whether you remove it or leave it but not replace it as you would have to do if you wanted it to remain effective.
 
On the ammonia in the source water.  I would not use the ammonia crystals or any similar product.  Plants need nitrogen, and aquatic plants prefer this in the form ammonia/ammonium which they will take up readily and fairly rapidly once they get settled.  You might use a conditioner that detoxifies ammonia at water changes just to deal with the initial influx; these detoxify by changing the toxic ammonia into the basically harmless ammonium.  Plants (and bacteria) take the ammonia/ammonium up interchangeably.  But the higher the pH, the more prevalent ammonia is over ammonium, and it may be best to deal with this initially.  The nitrate at 10 ppm is not going to be problematical, provided it does not rise further in the aquarium, and it shouldn't unless the tank becomes overstocked.  Regular weekly water changes of 1/2 the tank volume should manage this along with the plants.
 
I am puzzled by the fluctuating GH.  I doubt this is due to the plants; in my tanks, the plants assimilation of the hard minerals is so minimal the GH does not fluctuate from week to week (tested prior to the water change).  The ammonia product may have something to do with it, I can't say; perhaps other members will be able to advise us on this.
 
To the LED light.  I have next to no experience with LED, but the Kelvin at 7800K is a tad on the cool (blue) side, and I would wonder if the plants will receive sufficient red.  Blue and red light is necessary to drive photosynthesis, while the addition of green promotes natural colours and adds to the brightness which seems to benefit the plants.  I tried one LED system a year or so back, and it was along these lines of Kelvin, and I could see it was not going to work so I sold it and repaired my T8 fluorescent fixture.  Members with more LED experience may help you here.  I would get it on a regular duration though, so the plants (and fish) can maintain their systems accordingly.
 
The algae may be due to excess light, insufficient light, excess nutrients or insufficient nutrients.  As you can see, almost anything.  In new tanks this can be normal, as the biological system is not yet stable.  I would need to have a better idea of the light before I could venture suggestions, and once the plants really settle in it will change again.
 
The Aqueon plant food I have not used, but from the data on their website it seems to be OK.  Time will tell; plant nutrients occur from water changes and fish foods, so this additional supplement may be all you need.
 
I agree on the "silent cycle," I only do this and have for years.  When the plants are obviously thriving, and parameters are settled, adding the first fish should cause no issues.
 
Hope this is of some help.  Ask freely.

 
Byron.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I understand about the dwarf sag. I did read that either right before I bought it or just after(it took a couple of weeks to finally get it to me from the guy on ebay). Once I got it in the tank I actually like it tall! But...oh well, I don't mind it short either. Maybe I can find something else tall and skinny, dunno.
 
I think I only put the carbon in the planted tank just because it came with the filter. I can always remove and put something better(either another sponge or something that more bacteria can grow on). That is the 10 gallon. My 20 gallon has no carbon, just the ammonia nuetralizing crystals. And as far as I had read up on that, all it does is turn ammonia into ammonium so it doesn't harm the fish. Well, at least what I read a while ago, now I just reread some stuff and it's basically just zeolite? Should I go ahead and leave that in my 20 gallon since I don't have plants yet? That's what got my initial ammonia level down. Though I will also look for a product to change it to ammonium during water changes.
 
I'm not worried about the algae. I figured it was because it was newly setup and starting to do a mini cycle from the decaying plants in the tank(no fish in 10 gallon, only plants). But I will be looking into getting many more plants for it soon I hope. Any suggestions on good basically low-tech plants? I don't mind giving a trim now and then either(maybe once a week?). I don't really care for carpeting plants though. I do want to get more water sprite as I'm impatient on the babies to grow big. I kinda like the look of the java fern and lace java fern, would these be ok? And/or maybe some different types of anubias? I'm not sure what plants would be good to do the whole silent cycle thing so I can add fish sooner. I do only have a gravel substrate as well, if that makes a difference. (I have read and know that the java fern and anubias plants should be tied to decor as well, but are they fast enough growers for the silent cycle?)
 
Thanks for any and all help!

 

[Byron]

Generally, it is best to not use chemical filtration in planted tanks.  The zeolite and other ammonia products are chemical filtration.  Aside from a water conditioner as mentioned previously, I wouldn't do anything on this.
 
Java Fern is a low light plant so it should be fine.  It is best in partial shade, as under floating plants.  Attach to wood or rock, same as Anubias.  Being low light, it is naturally slow growing, so the uptake of ammonia will be minimal.  In new tanks, fast-growing plants should be present.  Stem plants fit this, but my preference are floating plants like Water Sprite, Water Lettuce, Frogbit.  Some stem plants do well left floating.
 
With your moderately hard water, Vallisneria is a plant to consider.  The smaller corkscrew Vall is a nice plant, and will grow taller than the dwarf Sag (that remains dwarf).
 
Water Sprite will take off once it is settled.  I have found this plant does not like being moved to a different environment even if left floating; even among my several tanks it takes its time to establish if moved, so be patient.
 
The pygmy chain sword should be fine in your set-up, though it is very close to the dwarf Sag in appearance, but in my tanks much faster spreading.
 
Byron. 

 

[jag51186]

Hey there, I just wanted to throw this in on LED lighting...

http/www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/product/A3982-aqualife-plant-full-spectrum-performance-led-strip-light/#.VTMPRsnD_qA

That's the one I use, and it is working fantastically. All my plants are growing very well with it. Idk if it helps, but you can try to use it for comparison.

Otherwise, you are in great hands with Byron!!

 

[Byron]

Hey there, I just wanted to throw this in on LED lighting...

http/www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/product/A3982-aqualife-plant-full-spectrum-performance-led-strip-light/#.VTMPRsnD_qA

That's the one I use, and it is working fantastically. All my plants are growing very well with it. Idk if it helps, but you can try to use it for comparison.

Otherwise, you are in great hands with Byron!!

 
Thanks for the kind words,and for posting this data.  I haven't tried or seen this lighting unit myself, but from the info in the video I would expect it to be pretty good.  One of my very old single-tube fluorescent fixtures is close to needing replacement, and I will likely track this one down if I can, as it seems a good choice.
 
Byron.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks for the great info guys.

I looked up the frogbit and the water lettuce, and although I love the look of them and would love to have them, I don't think they'd work for my tank as I have glass tops to keep the cats (and subsequent hair from them and the dogs) out of the tanks! Both of them said the tops had to remain dry so they wouldn't rot. I think I will stick with mostly Water Sprite as my fast growing plant for the most part. I know I'm being a little bit impatient, but my "adult" plants that I bought from the person off of ebay came in all nasty and rotted and now I only have the little babies so I do need the bigger ones if I want to do the silent cycle. I add a picture of how they came in.
 
Then my dwarf sag for foreground since it's doing really well! Lots of babies in these two weeks and one of those even has a nice sized leaf already!
 
I do want to try more corkscrew val again, I just think with these, from the same seller in the same bag as the water sprite...I think too many of the roots rotted out and I think that's why it may not be doing so good. Even the one I thought was healthy doesn't look so good now and it's just got a couple of the clean white new roots. I haven't seen any new leaf growth on those for a week either. I was expecting the leaves to melt on them, and they did, but I wasn't expecting the roots to be almost rotted. I think the reason the dwarf sag was fine was because it was in it's own plastic bag inside of the bag with those!
 
Anyway, I'll try to get a bunch of these as my fast growing plants and maybe add the regular and windelov java ferns in there and maybe put a little anubias nana in the front somewhere just for looks. I will probably do this as well for my 20 gallon as soon as I can, maybe get a couple diff anubias plants though for a change since it's a taller tank. I was even thinking about maybe the itallian val for that one even if I'd have to trim it quite a bit. Oh, and I WILL absolutely take out the ammonia neutralizer in that tank when I get the plants in.

I had planned on doing that anyway but until I get the plants I gotta do somethin for the ammonia. I will be doing a water change tomorrow and I'm going to test my well water again just to make sure things are right on that or if they've changed. I'll keep this updated on what I do.

I didn't think plants would be this much fun!!! Awesome!
 
 
Here's a picture of the plants right out of the box, but still in the bag

 
 
Here's the practically dead water sprite that I received

 
 
And one of the corkscrew val's roots after I cleaned them up and trimmed just a hair to see if that would make the roots grow faster

 

[jag51186]

You can still have frogbit with a glass top on. That's how I have mine, I have the tops for the exact same reason you do, and it is thriving!! Also, one the water sprite gets going it will surprise you I guarantee. If you really want a fast growing plant though, I would recommend anacharis...I have to trim it weekly or it takes over everything!! If you swing over to my journal in the planted tanks journal, you can see how fast everything has grown with just liquid ferts and good lighting.

Also, byron I was somewhat nervous to buy that light because it is pretty expensive, but I'm glad I did. It's doing great for me!

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks Jag! I'll definitely try some frogbit then! I haven't gotten new water test results yet, got busy today, so will do that tomorrow for sure. There aren't any good fish stores here or plants either, know any good place online to get the plants I want? I've been browsing plantedaquariumcentral and also aquariumplants....are these good sources or do you know of others that are good?

 

[jag51186]

Unfortunately I got all my plants, except the frogbit, from my lfs. I'm lucky and have a good one, even if it is an hour drive. Any of the bigger plant suppliers should be fairly decent, or they wouldn't have gotten so big lol. I just bought my frogbit off Amazon...Got lucky and everything went great!