New To Cichlids...help!

[didz04]

Hi,
The cichlids you are going to buy, how big do you want them to be?
Because at the moment i have 8 cichlids in a 2 foot tank and there are 7 different types of cichlid in there, and they are about 3 inches big. They are doing really well though and even my convict cichlids have already breeded and had that looks like 60-80 babies. When it comes to breeding for cichlids including these, they are really good parents because they become more aggressive in the tank to keep away the other cichlids. We have a yellow belly slider turtle in there and its funny because the male and female have to push him to get him away from the babies, which the turtle isnt even bothered about eating them or just doesn't recognse them.
All you really need for a good setup which the way we have it is; a cave on the left side, then a really bushy plant, and we have 12 big smooth surface rocks piled up so that they can go in and out. The more hiding places you have and the more different variety of hiding places like a plant, rock and a cave, will make them more happier and more chance of breeding.
Hope this helps

 

[Joey_Mic]

Hi,
The cichlids you are going to buy, how big do you want them to be?
Because at the moment i have 8 cichlids in a 2 foot tank and there are 7 different types of cichlid in there, and they are about 3 inches big. They are doing really well though and even my convict cichlids have already breeded and had that looks like 60-80 babies. When it comes to breeding for cichlids including these, they are really good parents because they become more aggressive in the tank to keep away the other cichlids. We have a yellow belly slider turtle in there and its funny because the male and female have to push him to get him away from the babies, which the turtle isnt even bothered about eating them or just doesn't recognse them.
All you really need for a good setup which the way we have it is; a cave on the left side, then a really bushy plant, and we have 12 big smooth surface rocks piled up so that they can go in and out. The more hiding places you have and the more different variety of hiding places like a plant, rock and a cave, will make them more happier and more chance of breeding.
Hope this helps

Hi,
Im not to sure of what size I want if im totally honest!! I posted just to get some feed back...
The fact u are using a 2 ft tank intrests me alot!! alot of people have told me to get nothing smaller than a 4ft tank... which i may struggle to accomodate.
Im also really impressed that you have a turtle in with your cichlids, i would love to have something along them lines. Does the turtle not conflict with the fish??

 

[Joey_Mic]

If you are interested in the brightly colored cichlids, I'm guessing you would prefer mbuna (means rock-dwelling), one of 3 groups of cichlids from Lake Malawi, Africa.

There is a lot of research needed to successfully keep them, they aren't difficult in terms of feeding or water quality, but rather grouping species that are unlikely to destroy each other. They are quite aggressive and temperaments can range from mildly aggressive to unbelievably psychotic. And because of their temperament and preference of hard alkaline water, mbuna should only be kept with other mbuna with the exception of some catfish.

For the basic requirements:

Tank: Most mbuna species can be kept in a minimum 4ft tank, they are mostly bottom dwellers and while they generally average around 5 inches or less, they are very territorial and need plenty of space. A couple of species get a bit larger than average, notably Pseudotropheus acei & Pseudotropheus crabro which both reach around 7-8 inches and should really be kept in a 6ft tank.

Filtration: As a couple of people have said you will need higher than average filtration. Mbuna should be overstocked to cut down on aggression, this allows sub-dominate or weaker fish to get "lost in the crowd" thus confusing the dominate fish (usually a male) who will randomly chase anyone near by. So, as a minimum you'll need a total tank turn over of 8-10 times. This can be achieved with a very large or multiple filters (should be the bulk of your turn over) and pumps/powerheads. You can go much higher with your turn over as well as long as none of the fish are getting blown around the tank. For example, I'll be setting up a new tank with a total turn over of around 25-30 times per hour!

Substrate: Mbuna thrive in high PH (7.8+) and hard water, so substrates that will buffer your water are preferred, that is unless your tap water can be considered liquid rock. Mbuna love sand, they'll happily dig in it all day long and it's great fun to watch; for their buffering ability, aragonite or coral sand are tops. You can find either in your LFS marine section, it does cost a bit more than play sand, but it's worth it.

Decor: As I said above, mbuna means rock-dwelling and that's exactly what they are. In the wild they live, eat and breed in rock piles, so your tank will need lots of rocks or other decor that will allow them to stake out territories. To help cut down on fights try to have multiple caves/crevices for each fish. For some inspiration check here: <a href="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169788" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169788</a>

Compatibility: Here's where it gets tricky, it's always important to research any fish before you buy it, but it's doubly so with mbuna. The biggest problem new keepers have is putting together incompatible species in the wrong ratios. The vast majority of species should be kept in ratios of 1 male for every 3 females. There are some exceptions of course, Labidochromis caeruleus & Pseudotropheus acei are both mild enough that they can generally be kept with multiple males. On the other hand, those species with higher aggression levels should be kept with only 1 male per tank and 4-5 females (per species). And then there are some species that shouldn't be sold at all as they are notorious for killing their tankmates regardless of how carefully you stock it. Melanochromis auratus & Melanochromis chipokae should be avoided at all costs, in fact I don't recommend any of the Melanochromis species for beginner mbuna keepers. Metriaclima lombardoi, commonly called Kennyi, are also very aggressive though they can be kept in larger tanks with other aggressive species. And then there's Pseudotropheus demasoni, one of my personal favorites, they are the biggest exception to the 1m/3f ratio. They have such high conspecific aggression (aggressive towards their own species and those similar looking) that they should be kept singly or in groups of 12 or more. That said, they do ignore any species that doesn't look similar so they're still a good choice.

Have I overwhelmed you yet?

You will notice they I'm using scientific names, this is really important with mbuna, there are no real common names for them like say a neon tetra, each LFS can and will call them whatever they want and so when identifying them you should always use their proper name. Another thing that should be avoided is picking any fish from a Mixed African Tank, these often contain hybrids which should be avoided for two reasons. 1 there are so many hybrids on the market now that it is becoming difficult to find pure strains and 2 you don't know who the parents are, the cute little fishy you pick out could turn out to be a killing machine.

I generally recommend to new keepers to go to their LFS and write down all the names of the fish they like the look of, then research them here or here and then post on here for help with compatibility. Grouping mbuna is just as much an art as it is a science, research and experience will tell you what will work and what won't which is why asking other keepers is so important. There are a couple of guidelines to follow though, avoid keeping species that all look alike and try to keep those with similar temperaments.

Further Reading: I highly recommend reading the following, as I said research is key to a successful mbuna tank or any tank for that matter.
The Mbuna Aquarium
Feeding Mbuna
African Cichlids, multiple articles

Well, if you've gotten through all that and still have questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer. -Dawn

Wow!!!
Ive got alot to consider and learn huh!!!
Im due to go to my LFS at the weekend so I will be sure to quiz him on all of what you have said!!!
Thnks for ur help

 

[dthoffsett]

In personal exp i've found lfs to give conflicting information to what i've read online. e.g. i once asked how often i should do a water change to keep nitrates down and i got a really funny look and a response of "why would you want to do that" i got all embarraced and pretended i didn't know what i was on about.

I too have gotten conflicting advice from the LFS (like so many others on here). I was once told that the reason my tank got a bacterial infection (brought in by new catfish that I unforntunately didn't quarantine) was because I changed the water too often and I had too many fish. According to them I should only have changed 10% once a month (on a mbuna tank no less) and that 18 juvenile mbuna under 2" was way too overstocked for a 75gal tank. They went on to say that everytime you change your water you are getting rid of your good bacteria since it is free floating, that's why their "expert" only recommended monthly small changes. This from a shop that always had diseased, dying or dead fish. Needless to say I never went back.

 

[didz04]

Hi, I am really sorry for the late response.
I know that you may think 2 foot is small which even i was shocked, it is my brothers tank which he worked at work experience at Viscum, and the staff told him it is ok for that size fish in the tank, which they said it is ok to have a red belly slider turtle with them, and they are right as he doesn't bother them at all. However it is best to get a small one like 3" long, they look mor quite. The turtles eat anything really including insects. The only thing you will need for them is the right food and a floating rock which we have for them to climb onto. I would recommend one as it gives way more entertainment in the tank. Also you can take him out and is good to leave h9im in the sun as they love that, or even a bright light that gives off heat will be good.