New Tank

[c0l1nr1gby]

We set up our new tank after Christmas. It's a fluval Venezia 190 (45g)

The tank was set up and left for 2 weeks, we then added:

2 gold mountain minnows, 7 neon tetra and 2 dalmation mollies.

Everything was fine for another 2 weeks so we added:

2 male guppies, 2 algae eaters, 1 balloon mollie and 3 aquatic crabs.

The next day an algae eater had disappeared, no sign at all. It did seem to be quite roughly handled when the lfs tried to catch it for us so we put it down to dying from trauma and the crabs eating the remains. A few days later however, a neon tetra disappeared too.

We took a sample of water to the lfs and had it tested and ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, PH were all fine.

So we added 2 clams, 2 rummy nose tetra and 2 silver sharks. On adding these I actually saw a crab catch and eat a rummy nose tetra. This we thought was our problem, so the crabs went back to the fish shop!

Also while the crabs were in the tank one of the guppies had its tail nipped by a crap and over the next week or 2 got lethargic, and eventually died with no other obvious symptoms. Again this was put down to the trauma of being attacked by the crab.

However since the crabs have gone we have lost the balloon mollie and after adding 5 guppies at the weekend a guppie, both very sudden and both over night with no apparent symptoms. We were also worried about one of the dalmation mollies as this started acting lethargic and spending its time hiding between rocks and staying at the bottom of the tank. But in the last day or so it seems to have perked up, although it's not 100%.

When the balloon mollie died we again had the water tested but the levels were normal.

We haven't done any water changes as every time the water is tested its fine and the lfs said we didn't need to do this.

We have been using tetra aquasafe when adding new fish and pets at home recommended using melafix when we told the pet shop about the guppie being attacked by the crab!

tank temp is 25c

Apart from the dalmation mollie which became lethargic and solitary, the other fish all died suddenly with no apparent symptoms although tonight we have noticed that 1 of the guppies has a white string hanging from its anus, I have also noticed this on the dalmation mollie that started to act sick and I also noticed it on the balloon mollie that died too.

Is this some sort of parasite or worm and if so what treatments is suggested?

We also have 2 air stones, the fluval 205 filter system, some big rocks and 3/4 plastic plants.

I appreciate now that a quarantine tank would have been a good idea and We have no intentions of adding anymore fish until this problem is sorted but we really don't know what is wrong!

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Hi there andd welcome
You seriously need to get your own test kit. Most on here have the API master kit. so you can be responsible for your own testing. fish shops can lie and tell you alls ok when it may not as when they say alls ok, you are buying more fish...they make money!
in general pets@home are a good company.
You also sound like you are doing what is called " a fish in cycle" which is a lot of work.
I suspect that in fact your water levels are not ok, and your fish are dying from the effects of ammonia and nitrite toxicity . in the beginners section you can read up on proper care and maintenance of a tank, nd the need to build up a bacterial soup which grows in your filter and "eats" the ammonia and nitrites. if you have a fish in cycle that has been set up since christmas with no waterchange yr fish are dying from gill damage and chemical nerve attacks by the nitrites.
so firstly, change 50% of the water in your tank....no easy job on a 45 G I understand.
econdly buy a API masterkit testing kit and do daily testings to ensure the ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and nitrates below 20...... if the ammonia and nitrites are higher than 0.25 its 50% waterchange time.
Also I am unsure if your fish are compatible. some species can be vicious and stress out other fish into dying, so this may be another factor. stress can cause illness in fish, so the stringy poo may be a sign of anything from gill flukes, to internal parasites to white spot. so carefully monitor their behaviour, eating and poos ( sorry) for changes.if they start flicking their bodies against the tank ornament, gill flukes, whitespot could be the problem if they seem to be swimming really hard and not going anywherw, this could also indicate illness. being shy can be a settling in thing in fish than have been put in your tank for less than a week....its fear of the unknown with them.... and it can be sign of stress, illness and in the case of livebearing ( guppies, platys, mollys)fish could be about to give birth.the stress of moving them from a shop can send them into early labour if they are near their time ( full gestation is 4 weeks.....4-6 in swordtails)
well this is by no means everything, and I'm sure someone more experienced can help you too.....as I am a newbie as well. Hope all goes well, and get that test kit . xx cheers

 

[K-Holed]

I'd agree that getting your own liquid based test kit (not the strips) would be a good first start. Your ammonia and nitrite shouls always read as zero. You nitrates aren't so much of a problem and most of your "normal" tropical species will tolerate fairly high levels (Anything above 80-100 and I'd be starting to be concerned).

Neon Tetras tend to do better in more mature setups (6 months plus) and your silver sharks will be unsuitable imo.

The first step would be to stop adding more fish. Secondly get a test kit and test your own water, then post the numerical results here. A water change at this point (with good tecnique) will do you the world of good and can do no harm (dilution of pollution). If your tank has been set up since Christmas, chances are your cycle is well underway but you are suffering the fallout in the meantime.

It would be a good idea also, to read the sticked threads in this forum. It seems like a lot of information, but once you get the gist of what's going on, it's really not that hard to grasp.
Hope everything works out and fell free to post more questions.

Kind regards

Jimi

 

[fatheadminnow]

to TFF!!!!

First off, when someone says your water parameters are "fine;" fine is no where near exceptional. Your ammonia and nitrite MUST bet at 0 ppm for them to be safe for fish, and I am 100% sure they are not in a newly, un-cycled tank as yours.

Unfortunately your LFS (local fish store) got the best of you, and told you everything was "fine" just so they could make an extra buck.

You are in what is called a fish-in cycle, read the following link to learn about a fish-in cycle: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=224306 You need to read that link, for the safety of your fish!

You are going to be doing at least 2 large daily water changes, every day for the next couple of weeks.

You also NEED to get a Liquid test kit, such as the API test kit in order for your to perform a fish-in cycle safely!

Also, once your tank has cycled, which should take on average 2 months, you must do at least 20% weekly water changes! This is essential for a healthy aquarium.

So please, read that link and come back here with any questions!

Fish keeping; unfortunately is not setting up a tank, heater and filter, and then adding water add fish. There is a lot more to it. If you do that, as you can see, your fish will start to die.

-FHM

 

[K-Holed]

You are going to be doing at least 2 large daily water changes, every day for the next couple of weeks.

I'm going to disagre on this one. You'll be doing as many water changes as it takes to get your Ammonia and Nitrite to a zero reading. This may bee two large water changes a day, it may be one small one every few days. Only testing your water will tell you what action you need to take.

Regards

Jimi

 

[ian]

has anyone said about getting rid of the clams?

if not, get rid of the clams!

I started a thread about these a month or so ago and the general consensus was that they generally don't survive in a tank, unless specially fed. Clams tend to be for the experienced mollusk keeper. They end up dying and causing massive ammonia spikes and unless you're testing you'll know nothing about it because they don't look any different.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=216507&view=&hl=clam&fromsearch=1

^^have a read of that.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi c0l1nr1gby and Welcome to the TFF beginners section!

You have run in to just about all of the classic beginner problems we see lots and lots of each month. The members here are great and have plenty of experience working these things out so I think you've come to the right place.

I'm going to first agree with getting a good water test kit: many of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit, which has been mentioned. Our Beginners Resource Center also contains a good write-up of the Fish-In Cycling situation.

I'm going to agree with Jimi and go one step farther.. Your tank may have achieved a fair amount of fish-in cycling already if its been going since the December holiday. Its hard to tell what state your bacteria have reached but a series of daily tests with the results posted up here should begin to tell that story.

If you -do- need to water change then it should be done with good technique: Always use a good conditioner to remove any chlorine/chloramines and dose it at 1.5x to 2x what they tell you (but not more than 2x.) Also roughtly temperature match the return water (your hand is good enough for this.) If you do find any traces of ammonia or nitrite(NO2) then water changing is your friend.

Silver sharks are not what you want and should be returned. Surprisingly, only a small number of tanks at the typical LFS will contain fish that are appropriate for beginner community freshwater tanks! All this will get worked out though and I hope you enjoy your stay!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fatheadminnow]

You are going to be doing at least 2 large daily water changes, every day for the next couple of weeks.

I'm going to disagre on this one. You'll be doing as many water changes as it takes to get your Ammonia and Nitrite to a zero reading. This may bee two large water changes a day, it may be one small one every few days. Only testing your water will tell you what action you need to take.

Regards

Jimi

Wrong. Almost always a fish-in cycle requires 2 daily water changes. I have seen this be the case in 99% of the fish-in cycles here on TFF, and it was also what happened in my tank when I was in a fish-in cycle.

If people take their LFS advice and get fish to stock their fish according their LFS stocking advice, then almost always their LFS will nearly stock the tank 100%, in which will require a couple very large water changes, at least in the beginning. As time goes on, the amount and frequency of water changes will gradually decrease.

You should check the water stats in the morning, then do a water change accordingly, then once again at night check the water stats and then do another water change accordingly.

-FHM

 

[c0l1nr1gby]

Thanks for all your advice, bought a water testing kit today.

Results:

Amonia - somewhere between 0 and 0.25, definitely not 0 and not as high as 0.25

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 0

pH - is high at 8 (tap water pH is 7.4)

Are these levels acceptable or do we need to do a 50% water change?? Any idea why the pH is so high?

General health of fish seems ok today, no losses over night and no white stringy bits.

Thanks for the advice so far

 

[Assaye]

Those stats are looking pretty good.

The ammonia is high so do a 50% water change and re-test after an hour. If it's still high then, do another water change and if it is zero, test the next day and do another water change then if necessary. Ammonia should be zero - even nearly zero is too high.

Keep testing and make a journal of daily results. That way we can work out if your ammonia and nitrites are staying down and if your pH is stable. This will help us work out why your fish are dying.

It is very probably the case that in the past (i.e. when you first set up your tank), the ammonia and nitrites got really high. This will have damaged the fish but not necessarily killed them straight away. However, that damage could lead to them dying or becoming sick days or even weeks later.

Once we know if your water is stying good and if your ammonia levels are improving there are a few other things you need to work on.

At the moment your stock looks like this, correct?

2 gold mountain minnows
6 neon tetra
2 dalmation mollies.
2 male guppies
1 algae eater
1 balloon mollie.
2 clams
1 rummy nose tetra
2 silver sharks

Here are the problems:

2 gold mountain minnows - need shoals of at least 6
6 neon tetra - very fragile fish that should be added to tanks that are at least 3 months old
2 dalmation mollies - fine, but what sex? Should be all the same sex or 2 females at least per male. Males are bullies and will pester females for sex.
2 male guppies - fine
1 algae eater - sucking loach? Chinese algae eater? Siamese algae eater? Will reach 20 cm and will become terriatorial and agressive as adults. Even a 190 litre tank isn't big enough, IMO, and they could start killing your smaller fish when they get bigger.
1 balloon mollie - fine, but what sex?
2 clams - how are you feeding them? Clams, crabs and other odd-balls should be kept in dedicated tanks and/or by experienced keepers or at east by people willing to adapt their tanks and inhabitants for their needs. They are NOT good community additions for an inexperienced keeper.
1 rummy nose tetra - need a shoals of 6 as a minimum
2 silver sharks - will reach 12 inches and become very active. Powerful fish that need vast tanks - 6 foot is a rock bottom minimum! They also need groups - 3 is a minimum, 6 is ideal.

Red = not suitable, IMO
Purple = need some friends
Blue = warning
Green = OK, but read the notes

These are not immediately pressing but if these issues are not sorted then the fish will become stressed, vulnerable and sick.

 

[ian]

the clams should be removed immediately imo, without food they only last a week or 2. These let off a lot of ammonia when dead.

 

[c0l1nr1gby]

Thanks for that feed back. After reading yesterdays posts the clams have gone.

The algae eaters are sucking loaches I think! Are there any good sites to use to reference them? Even google has the same pictures for all 3 types you mentioned.

And as Im typing one of the gold mountain minnows has started having fits and is drifting in the current.

Any advice on water changes? Do we just use tap water or can we mix it with hot water to try get the temperature right?
We have aquasafe to add to the tap water too

 

[pix1]

Thanks for that feed back. After reading yesterdays posts the clams have gone.

The algae eaters are sucking loaches I think! Are there any good sites to use to reference them? Even google has the same pictures for all 3 types you mentioned.

And as Im typing one of the gold mountain minnows has started having fits and is drifting in the current.

Any advice on water changes? Do we just use tap water or can we mix it with hot water to try get the temperature right?
We have aquasafe to add to the tap water too

When doing your water change you need to make sure the temp of the water you put in is the same as what the tank is at.

 

[Truck]

You are going to be doing at least 2 large daily water changes, every day for the next couple of weeks.

I'm going to disagre on this one. You'll be doing as many water changes as it takes to get your Ammonia and Nitrite to a zero reading. This may bee two large water changes a day, it may be one small one every few days. Only testing your water will tell you what action you need to take.

Regards

Jimi

I would still do the 2 Large water changes daily, you can't vow for the accuracy of the test kits, and ammonia and nitrite toxicity depends on temperature and PH.

 

[c0l1nr1gby]

50% water change done and water retested

Amonia - 0

Nitrate - 0

Nitrite - 0

pH - 7.4

Will retest tomorrow evening.