New Tank - Trouble With Tetras

[Flibberjig]

Hi all

We have bought a 65 litre tank. It was set up by the book over a long period of time slowly adding more ornaments etc and letting it settle including live plants. When the water levels were tested and showed to be perfect by the pet shop we bought, on their advice, 5 neon tetras. Within 48 hrs 2 have died, 1 may have got tangled in the live plants but the other just died. There is no obvious signs of disease and all fish appeared perfectly happy. Not flitting around all over the place but not hiding in the corner either. All are eating happily. Last night we almost lost one more as it completely lost its neon and become very lethargic. We put a bit more stress Zyme in. This morning all are fine again. One is spending a lot of time towards the top of the tank although not for air. They are all still eating but don't appear to be sticking together any more. Where do we go from here? The levels are still perfect. Should we wait to see what these do? Or try to add something like the 'indestructible' danios to keep the levels in the tank stable? Any advice would be muchly appreciated. Please feel free to ask any other questions.

 

[fluttermoth]

to the forum

When you say the levels are perfect, what are the actual numbers for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? How did you test them?

Everything in your post, to me, says 'fish dying of raised ammonia levels in an uncycled tank'.

When you set up your tank and let it 'run in', where you adding an ammonia source, or just running the equipment?

The first thing you should do is a big water change, and by 'big' I mean leaving just enough water in the tank for the fish to swim upright before refilling with warmed, dechlorinated water; don't forget to switch your heater and filter off first!

Then go and have a read of the articles on 'the nitrogen cycle' and 'fish-in cycling' in the beginner's resource centre (the link is in my sig).

Post back if anything's not totally clear, and someone will be around to help

 

[Flibberjig]

to the forum

When you say the levels are perfect, what are the actual numbers for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? How did you test them?

Everything in your post, to me, says 'fish dying of raised ammonia levels in an uncycled tank'.

When you set up your tank and let it 'run in', where you adding an ammonia source, or just running the equipment?

The first thing you should do is a big water change, and by 'big' I mean leaving just enough water in the tank for the fish to swim upright before refilling with warmed, dechlorinated water; don't forget to switch your heater and filter off first!

Then go and have a read of the articles on 'the nitrogen cycle' and 'fish-in cycling' in the beginner's resource centre (the link is in my sig).

Post back if anything's not totally clear, and someone will be around to help

Hi there

Thanks very much for your reply. I compeketly agree, everythign shouts ammonia. However, my other half took a water sample into our pet shop who apparently got out their science kit and after 15 minutes of tests found nothing wrong. I'm afraid I don't know the exact levels as I wasn't with him when the tests were done but they did check ammonia and found nothing wrong at all, like I said perfect. The things that were added to the tank were stress Zyme and stress coat, to my knowledge nothing more. I don't think we were advised about ammonia unless it is part of one of these two. Do you think this is the problem?

Thanks again

 

[Flibberjig]

Sorry, would it be possible to explain to me how a water change will help? Do I add something to the water to help get everything back on track or am I getting rid of the old water to get rid of something from there? Thank you

 

[fluttermoth]

I'd be more inclined to 'listen' to the fish, rather than the unknown results of the tests.

Shops never advise 'fishless' cycles, where you add ammonia to the tank to grow the necessary bacteria in the filter before fish are added.

I'd get your own master test kit (a liquid or tablet one, not the paper strip type; they're just not accurate enough) so you can monitor the water yourself; until then do daily, 50% water changes. If the full master test kit is beyond your current finances then you can get away with just ammonia and nitrite ones, for the moment.

I feel I ought to warn you that neons don't do well in new tanks, even if they're properly cycled, so you may well lose more...

The reason for the large water changes is; fish produce ammonia all the time, through their wastes and that (despite what your shop tests are saying) is building up in the water and poisoning the fish. Until your filter has built up a colony of the good bacteria that eat the ammonia for you, the only way to get rid of it, and keep the fish safe, is to remove it manually, through water changes.

 

[Flibberjig]

I'd be more inclined to 'listen' to the fish, rather than the unknown results of the tests.

Shops never advise 'fishless' cycles, where you add ammonia to the tank to grow the necessary bacteria in the filter before fish are added.

I'd get your own master test kit (a liquid or tablet one, not the paper strip type; they're just not accurate enough) so you can monitor the water yourself; until then do daily, 50% water changes. If the full master test kit is beyond your current finances then you can get away with just ammonia and nitrite ones, for the moment.

I feel I ought to warn you that neons don't do well in new tanks, even if they're properly cycled, so you may well lose more...

The reason for the large water changes is; fish produce ammonia all the time, through their wastes and that (despite what your shop tests are saying) is building up in the water and poisoning the fish. Until your filter has built up a colony of the good bacteria that eat the ammonia for you, the only way to get rid of it, and keep the fish safe, is to remove it manually, through water changes.

Thank you so much. It is making so much more sense. Like you say, you look at the fish and go ammonia but the shop says everything is fine! I'm so surprised that not one of the three shops we spoke to talked to its about putting ammonia in the tank. I will make sure that all of that is done and I can't thank you enough for your quick response and patience.

 

[fluttermoth]

You only add ammonia to the tank for fishless cycles. As you already have fish in there, they'll be producing the ammonia.

Once you get your test kit make sure you test every day and do enough water changes to stop the ammonia (and nitrite when that starts to appear) ever going above 0.25ppm.