New Tank Setup Questions

[DeaDRingeR]

Well, you guys are going to laugh at me, but I ended up picking up 6 tetras to start cycling my tank. )

2 Black Phantom Tetras, 2 Diamond Tetras and 2 Silver-Tip Tetras are what I got.

I guess my main downfall was that I was in a rush to pick up my sisters from school, so I basically did whatever the LFS guy told me.

I explained to him that I was thinking of doing a fishless-cycle and he advised me against it saying that doing it with fish is "the natural way" and would be much easier and safer. He said that adding the ammonia yourself leaves too much room for error. I'm not stupid, so I know that he was just trying to sell me fish, but I really wanted to get my tank setup as soon as possible and it was either this or trying to get back out within the next few days to get ammonia. I came, I saw, I bought...without thinking.

EDIT: He also said I could take back the Tetras once the tank was cycled and trade them in for whatever else I wanted.

 

[Torrean]

Just make sure that you seed the tank like I mentioned earlier, pica did too i believe. Also when you add more fish do it very slowly. cycling with fish takes longer I think because you have to recycle each time you add fish. I don't know much about tetras but I hope they are small very hardy fish. BTW did you get it in writing that they would take back the fish? Also you don't have to use ammonia I don't think. I believe you can cycle a tank with just fish food, just takes a bit longer. Maybe you'll think of returning those tetras??? Sorry to hear about your change of mind but oh well they are your fish, and you haven't overloaded your tank, as long as they are small fish. General rule is 1" per gallon but that can be stretched or shortened a bit considering aggression and swimming range, top mid bottom. as well as eating habits and efficiency of digestion. Also the width of the fish should be considered. Wide bodied fish produce more waste than thin ones like kuhli loaches. EDIT: it is a 25 GAL right?

BTW you said your LFS guy "Knew his stuff." What a load of $&*T. I don't think you can even add too much ammonia, it just takes longer for your bacteria to break it down. He was just trying to sell you fish like you said and I would not rely on his knowledge in the future.

 

[DeaDRingeR]

The guy I was talking to today wasn't the one that I know knew his stuff. They were busy and I was in a rush so I just talked to whoever I could find.
I guess the upside is that I'll have some fish to look at while the tank cycles rather than weeks of an empty tank, but I'll be sure to return the Tetras and get the fish I really want once the time comes.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice.

 

[boxman]

I know what you mean about wanting to rush your cycle time. I did a fishless cycle and now (6 weeks later) I'm nearly fully stocked and my chemical levels are perfect.

No point persuading you otherwise as you're doing a fishy cycle but I'd highly recommend you keep close tabs on your Ph, Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite levels and...

Correct me anyone if I'm wrong but.....

I wouldn't go back to that LFS again. If they're willing to take back fish which have undoubtedly been through the stress of two lots of transportation and fluctuating chemical levels then goodness knows what they stock is like.

Also you don't know if the fish you buy next have been used in the same way.

My LFS wouldn't let me buy fish unless they knew my water samples were fine - that's the way it should be in my opinion.

Just my two cents worth.

Good luck anyway!

Pete

 

[pica_nuttalli]

:shrug: these things happen. and just because the guy doesn't know how to fishless cycle doesn't mean to ignore everything he says. like most advice, take it with a grain of salt and a second opinion. your tank right now has a good level of stocking for a fishy cycle, but any additional fish will have to be added slowly.

now, speaking of additional fish... have you given any further thought to your final stocklist?

 

[Slyspy]

Well, you guys are going to laugh at me, but I ended up picking up 6 tetras to start cycling my tank. )

2 Black Phantom Tetras, 2 Diamond Tetras and 2 Silver-Tip Tetras are what I got.

I guess my main downfall was that I was in a rush to pick up my sisters from school, so I basically did whatever the LFS guy told me.

I explained to him that I was thinking of doing a fishless-cycle and he advised me against it saying that doing it with fish is "the natural way" and would be much easier and safer. He said that adding the ammonia yourself leaves too much room for error. I'm not stupid, so I know that he was just trying to sell me fish, but I really wanted to get my tank setup as soon as possible and it was either this or trying to get back out within the next few days to get ammonia. I came, I saw, I bought...without thinking.

EDIT: He also said I could take back the Tetras once the tank was cycled and trade them in for whatever else I wanted.

Well thats all well and good but the most of those fish will probably not survive the cycling process unless you have the patience and willpower to do your daily water changes. Forgive me but neither of those virtues has been much in evidence so far.

Whats done is done though so stick with it, test and change the water daily and eventually you will be able to add more (or replacement fish). If your current stock dies please consider starting again with a fishless cycle. It is infact easier, cheaper and a quicker way of fully stocking your tank. Adding live plants may help remove some pollutants (namely nitrAtes when you get them) and so help keep the fish alive, though plants raise further issues regarding lighting etc.

As you say, you are not stupid but the maxim "less haste, more speed" certainly applies here.

 

[DeaDRingeR]

I hear ya guys.

In hindsight I realize that I shouldn't have been so hasty, but you guys know how it is when you first start out and you want to get your tank filled. If this method doesn't work out for me (read: all the fish die) I will definitely give the fishless cycle a go, but as it is now I might as well run with it.

box:
They are the only real "fish store" in the area, I don't have many other options. Remember, this is my second experience starting a tank, my first tank was very successful with all the fish I purchased there...and I don't even remember cycling it like this. I live in Aurora, Ontario, Canada, so I go to Big Al's Aquarium in Newmarket, Ontario. It's a longshot, but does anyone else know of any other FS in this area?

pica:
I'm thinking of going with a mix of rainbows and guppies with maybe bala shark and a efficient algae eater. I like plecos, but like you said, they make a lot of waste. I'm completely open to suggestion though. I really dig colorful and unique looking fish, hence my choices of rainbows/guppies (colorful) and knifefish.
How about the Elephant Nose's? I guess they would be in the same category as the BGK, but they look so damn cool. I love oddballs!

Sly:
I thought you weren't supposed to change the water when cycling? Sorry if I'm mistaken, it might be the fishless cycle I'm thinking of.

And finally, another question:
What are the signs I'm looking for when testing the water for this cycle method? I know with the fishless cycle you're looking for the spikes and drops of ammonia and then nitrite, but is it the same when you're doing the cycle with fish? How can I tell when it's cycled?

 

[isu_guy]

BGK are cool, but your tank is too small for it full grown. If you KNOW that you'll have a tank large enough in a year or so (all depends on how big when you purchase) then a 25 is fine for the time being.

They are hiders though which can leave a bit to be desired sometimes. At the fish store they are hard to resist when they have no where to hide except maybe a clear tube. You get them home and give them a proper cave of some sort and poof you don't see them except at night (if you have a moonlight system) and feeding times.

good luck with fish keeping

 

[dwarfgourami]

about cycling with fish: yes, you are still looking for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. The cycle is the same. Only difference is that these ammonia and nitrites, while a sign that the cycle is moving, are also toxic to fish; so you need to ease their lives by water changes, otherwise they could die or end up with permanent health problems.

about elephantnose fish: yes, they are cool-looking, but I believe they need an established tank, lots of space, excellent and stable water conditions, and are fussy eaters- so they may be something to put on the wishlist for later on.

about algae eaters: whatever you do, don't buy anything that grows big just because you've been told every tank must have an algae eater- you'll be creating more problems than you solve. You can do a lot of algae cleaning yourself with a scraper and a gravel vacuum, and no doubt your guppies will do the rest. They are very good at eating algae off plants and ornaments, and will probably do your gravel, though they can't do glass walls. My livebearer tank was smothered in brown algae before I put the fish in, now looks pristine.

 

[Slyspy]

As the dwarf said when cycling with fishyou need to do daily water changes of sufficient size to keep the ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte levels to at least a bearable level or all your fish will die. As it is exposure to even small amounts may damage or kill them. Not doing water changes will leave them swimming in a toxic soup. Unfortunately this also slows the cycle down and restricts the size of the bacteria bed, which is why tanks cycled with fish should be stocked gradually.

With the fishless cycle it is not recommended to change the water. The bacteria therefore have plenty of food and it is safe to add all the fish at once when the cycle is complete.