New Tank - Help Please

[Westman]

Hi All,

What a great website – just wish I’d found it a few weeks earlier i.e. before I started “breaking” all the “rules” set out in your very informative forum topics. Please therefore be tolerant in any replies/advice you might like to offer!

I am not new to fish keeping but, as I wanted to change tanks, I decided to try a moderately planted tank for the first time. Here is the history to date:

25 Sept Set up Tank (AquaStart 340) – washed all equipment and fine gravel - boiled bog wood - placed a generous amount of Tetra complete substrate under 2” of the gravel, treated tap water with AquaSafe, filled tank and tested lights, filter,heater etc – Substituted some of the Ceramic Noodles with Ceramic Media from old tank (BiUbe) - await delivery of plants.

29 Sept - Plants arrive and planted (started using Flourish Supplement, Flourish Excel & Giovanni’s Trace,Fertiliser tabs as per instructions on labels). Commenced using Nutrafin Cycle for first three days as per label. Put a pinch of fish flake in tank.

7 Oct - Started testing with API kit – PH 7.8, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate 10-15, Ammonia 0
8 Oct - PH 7.6, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate 20, Ammonia 0.25
9 Oct - PH 7.6, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate 20, Ammonia 0
10 Oct- PH 7.6, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate 20, Ammonia 0
11 Oct- PH 7.6, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate 10, Ammonia 0

Bit puzzled at some of the readings and did add a small amount of Cycle (10ml) on 10 Oct but the only effect seems to be a drop in the level of nitrate! As nothing else of significance is happening it would seem to confirm the consensus view regarding Cycle although I have used this for years when adding new fish to the old tank – perhaps useless for new tank cycling. I also wonder whether the plants are having any adverse effect even though they are receiving good nutrients? Having read the notes on the forum, I feel that I should now go down the "bottle of ammonia" route – have found some Kleen Off on Ebay and am awaiting delivery. In the meantime any comments or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Keep up the good work

 

[BigbruiserAl]

API nitrate test is so poor you have a better chance licking your finger and tasting nitrate ppm .

Lets start of what your tank size, filter and expected fish stocks?

Adding ammonia to a planted tank is asking for trouble the plants need light but with ammoina will increase alage growth hence why you dont add plants in a fishless cycle, also the plants will absorb ammonia that the bacteria are trying to feed from

 

[Vail3r]

API nitrate test is so poor you have a better chance licking your finger and tasting nitrate ppm .

I'm easily amused so I laughed! Why are API nitrate test so bad?

 

[HayzH]

some find them notoriously inaccurate...you have to really and i mean REALLY shake the bottle for a good minute to mix up all the chemicals in bottle No 2.. if you did a test without shaking it...then shake it for 1min and test again you would get 2 different results.
as long as you go by the leaflet instructions...you should be ok. Its just a pain really (usually in your right arm )

 

[Westman]

API nitrate test is so poor you have a better chance licking your finger and tasting nitrate ppm .

Lets start of what your tank size, filter and expected fish stocks?

Adding ammonia to a planted tank is asking for trouble the plants need light but with ammoina will increase alage growth hence why you dont add plants in a fishless cycle, also the plants will absorb ammonia that the bacteria are trying to feed from

up
Unfortunately,I only have room for a small tank. The tank is 40 litres with a top filter unit comprising green media sponge, carbon cartridges(x2) and ceramic noodles media box.
I intend to stock it with a mixture of tiger barbs (green, striped & ghost), perhaps7or8 in total.

I too am rather puzzled by your comments about the API test kit as it seems to be well favoured by a lot of members on this forum - what would you recommend as an alternative?

I took the decision to plant up before cycling on the advice of a local aquatics dealer(they had no vested interest as I was not ordering plants from them) and I had read elsewhere on the internet that this caused no problem and indeed could be beneficial!! If this was bad advice I am now stuck with it cos I aint chasing plants around the tank for hours again! You have confirmed by fears about the plants but, given that I do not want to remove them at this stage, is there any way around the problem do you think? I imagine I am not the first to fall into this trap or likely to be the last.

 

[Westman]

some find them notoriously inaccurate...you have to really and i mean REALLY shake the bottle for a good minute to mix up all the chemicals in bottle No 2.. if you did a test without shaking it...then shake it for 1min and test again you would get 2 different results.
as long as you go by the leaflet instructions...you should be ok. Its just a pain really (usually in your right arm )

Thanks HayzH.

Believe me, I always read and closely follow the instructions very closely, even though I have been using this product sucessfully for years. One thing that occurs to me: Is it possible that the test kits have a shelf life and that there is a possibility of the test fluids becoming unreliable over the passage of time? I have not had time to see if this has already been raised in the forums.

 

[HayzH]

API nitrate test is so poor you have a better chance licking your finger and tasting nitrate ppm .

Lets start of what your tank size, filter and expected fish stocks?

Adding ammonia to a planted tank is asking for trouble the plants need light but with ammoina will increase alage growth hence why you dont add plants in a fishless cycle, also the plants will absorb ammonia that the bacteria are trying to feed from

up
Unfortunately,I only have room for a small tank. The tank is 40 litres with a top filter unit comprising green media sponge, carbon cartridges(x2) and ceramic noodles media box.
I intend to stock it with a mixture of tiger barbs (green, striped & ghost), perhaps7or8 in total.

I too am rather puzzled by your comments about the API test kit as it seems to be well favoured by a lot of members on this forum - what would you recommend as an alternative?

I took the decision to plant up before cycling on the advice of a local aquatics dealer(they had no vested interest as I was not ordering plants from them) and I had read elsewhere on the internet that this caused no problem and indeed could be beneficial!! If this was bad advice I am now stuck with it cos I aint chasing plants around the tank for hours again! You have confirmed by fears about the plants but, given that I do not want to remove them at this stage, is there any way around the problem do you think? I imagine I am not the first to fall into this trap or likely to be the last.

Im not sure you have room for that many Barbs..but im sure someone will advise shortly...
They are well favoured and i like them...but you really need to do it correctly to ensure correct reading. I thoughly recommend Salifert tests....they are freely avaliable on Ebay. they are very accurate.

What plants did you get??? have you got a pic?? The plants absorb the Ammonia, therefor creating false readings when cycling. Plants are benificial when doing a fish IN cycle as they help keep the ammonia down to safe levels for the fish.
Personally i would take the plants out. you really dont want to delay the process..my fishLESS cycles are at Day 43 now..and still not there!

some find them notoriously inaccurate...you have to really and i mean REALLY shake the bottle for a good minute to mix up all the chemicals in bottle No 2.. if you did a test without shaking it...then shake it for 1min and test again you would get 2 different results.
as long as you go by the leaflet instructions...you should be ok. Its just a pain really (usually in your right arm )

Thanks HayzH.

Believe me, I always read and closely follow the instructions very closely, even though I have been using this product sucessfully for years. One thing that occurs to me: Is it possible that the test kits have a shelf life and that there is a possibility of the test fluids becoming unreliable over the passage of time? I have not had time to see if this has already been raised in the forums.

they have a use by date on them...after that they are not reliable.

 

[BigbruiserAl]

The reason the test kit is so bad is the reagents in the API dont always mix to the right amounts, even with shaking like loon so you can get different results depending what going on in that tiny (non see through bottle)

Sailferts are defo the best, 4 drops of one reagent and a scoop of power(tiny) gives you an accurate results(as can be for home kits)

 

[Westman]

API nitrate test is so poor you have a better chance licking your finger and tasting nitrate ppm .

Lets start of what your tank size, filter and expected fish stocks?

Adding ammonia to a planted tank is asking for trouble the plants need light but with ammoina will increase alage growth hence why you dont add plants in a fishless cycle, also the plants will absorb ammonia that the bacteria are trying to feed from

up
Unfortunately,I only have room for a small tank. The tank is 40 litres with a top filter unit comprising green media sponge, carbon cartridges(x2) and ceramic noodles media box.
I intend to stock it with a mixture of tiger barbs (green, striped & ghost), perhaps7or8 in total.

I too am rather puzzled by your comments about the API test kit as it seems to be well favoured by a lot of members on this forum - what would you recommend as an alternative?

I took the decision to plant up before cycling on the advice of a local aquatics dealer(they had no vested interest as I was not ordering plants from them) and I had read elsewhere on the internet that this caused no problem and indeed could be beneficial!! If this was bad advice I am now stuck with it cos I aint chasing plants around the tank for hours again! You have confirmed by fears about the plants but, given that I do not want to remove them at this stage, is there any way around the problem do you think? I imagine I am not the first to fall into this trap or likely to be the last.

Im not sure you have room for that many Barbs..but im sure someone will advise shortly...
They are well favoured and i like them...but you really need to do it correctly to ensure correct reading. I thoughly recommend Salifert tests....they are freely avaliable on Ebay. they are very accurate.

Regards the barbs, I found a useful fish stocking level calculator on http/www.thinkfish.co.uk/calculators.php?calc=stocking and this seems to indicate 40cms for my 40 litre tank and reference books typically show tiger barbs as size 6-7cm. I don’t know how accurate these sources are but this would probably suggest 6 fish max (I never had any problems with 7 in my old 35 litre BiUbe). Interesting to see what others may suggest.

What plants did you get??? have you got a pic?? The plants absorb the Ammonia, therefor creating false readings when cycling. Plants are benificial when doing a fish IN cycle as they help keep the ammonia down to safe levels for the fish.
Personally i would take the plants out. you really dont want to delay the process..my fishLESS cycles are at Day 43 now..and still not there!

I have Ludwigia repens, Crypto clusters, Anubias nana 'petite',Hygro. corymbosa 'compacta' and Ech. tenellus. As background I tried Corkscrew Vallis but the plants collapsed within days and my supplier is now putting together alternatives. I have a nice piece of slate in the foreground and piece of bogwood in the background. All have taken very well and plenty of new growth already. I'll try and post a pic soon. I really do not want to take the plants out so perhaps could consider fish IN cycle or is it too late for that? Hope you soon reach the end of your cycle - that seems like an eternity to me!

some find them notoriously inaccurate...you have to really and i mean REALLY shake the bottle for a good minute to mix up all the chemicals in bottle No 2.. if you did a test without shaking it...then shake it for 1min and test again you would get 2 different results.
as long as you go by the leaflet instructions...you should be ok. Its just a pain really (usually in your right arm )

Thanks HayzH.

Believe me, I always read and closely follow the instructions very closely, even though I have been using this product sucessfully for years. One thing that occurs to me: Is it possible that the test kits have a shelf life and that there is a possibility of the test fluids becoming unreliable over the passage of time? I have not had time to see if this has already been raised in the forums.

they have a use by date on them...after that they are not reliable.

Any idea what the shelf life is? Nothing on the packaging of my kit but I have had this for some time so they may not be up to the job. Sounds like I might have to try the Salifert tests you recommend.

 

[Westman]

The reason the test kit is so bad is the reagents in the API dont always mix to the right amounts, even with shaking like loon so you can get different results depending what going on in that tiny (non see through bottle)

Saliferts are defo the best, 4 drops of one reagent and a scoop of power(tiny) gives you an accurate results(as can be for home kits)

Thanks for that. HayzH has also recommended Saliferts so I'll probably give that a go.

 

[fluttermoth]

I wouldn't try keeping tiger barbs in a 40l; they grow much bigger than people realise; my oldest ones are a good couple of inches in length and are very deep bodied and chunky. I'd consider a 100l as a minimum size for them.