New Tank Fish Questions

[tom130691]

just got me a 64 litre tropical tank

what sorts of fish do you advise to get for it as its a bit empty?

have spoke to a few people that have done this before and they say get 2-3 fish to start cycling then slowly add more
the fish i like the look of are these with the rought amount of each i would like

i know this will probably be too many for my tank but the bottom few im willing to drop



2 or 3 x rainbow or platies (to start the tank cycle)
1 x pleco
2 x shark
1 x Siamese fighter
1 x catfish
2 x glass cat fish
4 x tetra

these i am willing to drop
1 x algae eater
2 x guppies
5 x danios
22 fish 64 litre tank ?

also i will be raising the filter to break the surface so i dont have to get an air pump and i have been told i will need live plants is this true?

 

[erk628]

First things first give this a read! http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

I would suggest doing a fishless cycle its easier on you and the fish you can find information on how to do that here. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

 

[tom130691]

First things first give this a read! http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

I would suggest doing a fishless cycle its easier on you and the fish you can find information on how to do that here. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

ive already lookedat this sort of thing online ect
the tank will have been sat for 2weeks any i will use fish to cycle i have been told rainbow or platies are hardy
put 2-3 in then wait 3-4 before adding anything else

so how optimistic am i being with that list of fish and will i need a live plant or 2?

First things first give this a read! http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

I would suggest doing a fishless cycle its easier on you and the fish you can find information on how to do that here. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

ive already lookedat this sort of thing online ect
the tank will have been sat for 2weeks any i will use fish to cycle i have been told rainbow or platies are hardy
put 2-3 in then wait 3-4 weeks before adding anything else

so how optimistic am i being with that list of fish and will i need a live plant or 2?

cant use this forum

 

[erk628]

You do know what is involved in a fishin cycle right. You dont only subject the fish to lethal amounts of ammonia and nitrites but you will also have to do monster water changes of at least 50% every day for weeks sometimes more then once a day just to keep them alive until the cycle is done. Then once its done you have to stock slowly because you only have enough bacteria colonized to support the fish you cycled with. With the add and wait fishless cycle you add ammonia and wait no water changes no harm to the fish. Plus once cycled your filters will be about ready for a full stocking. But if you really want to do a fishin cycle then have at it but trust me from experience its no fun.

 

[arobinson1984]

Agree with erk here, I would seriously recommend performing a fishless cycle. When cycling using fish you quite often have to perform 2/3 large water changes every day for 4-6 weeks just to keep the fish alive, with a fishless cycle none of this is required making it alot easier of not only yourself but the fish as they wont be subject to poison.

Have a read of the topics that are linked in my signature.

Secondly you need to be aiming at using the 1" of ADULT fish per gallon as a good stocking guide for a beginner. 64L is 17 US gallons so you need to be looking at about 17" worth of fish. When stocking you need to take into account the adult size of the fish not the size it is when you buy from the fish store.

Thirdly, no sharks can go in that size tank.

Andy

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Tom and welcome to TFF!

I agree with Andy and erk:

When you buy a new filter, its basically like buying a computer with no software. The filter is a hardware kit that usually needs a month or two of work performed by a knowledgeable hobbyist. Understanding this work, the startup of the "Nitrogen Cycle" that will be a key system of the aquarium environment, by hands-on experience will be perhaps the most valuable learning experience you can have as a hobbyist. Its the "cart" before the "horse, of aquarium stocking."

When fish "respire" by moving water through their gills, they not only give off CO2, like humans, but also large amounts of ammonia and ammonium. Fish waste, excess fish food and plant debris all break down in the aquarium to form ammonia. In nature, thousands of gallons of fresh water constantly dilute this ammonia, leaving fish gills enjoying fresh water.

Ammonia, even in tiny amounts, causes gill damage, leading (without necessarily showing symptoms) to a shortened fish life or to death. Using the "biomedia" as a surface and the flow of ammonia and oxygenated water through the filter, we try to grow the first specific species of bacteria that processes ammonia into nitrite(NO2) as the first stage of the nitrogen cycle.

Unfortunately, nitrite(NO2) is also a deadly toxin to fish. Nitrite(NO2), even in tiny amounts, attaches its two oxygen atoms to the hemoglobin protein on fish red blood cells just as pure oxygen would but it then destroys the hemoglobin and reduces the red blood cell to a brown mush.

Luckily, the second specific bacterial type that will grow in our filters will process this nitrite(NO2) into nitrate(NO3) which is not nearly so bad in the aquarium. Its not a particularly good thing but it can be allowed to build up until the weekly water change of normal aquarium maintenance.

When a beginner uses fish to "cycle" an aquarium, its basically a crap shoot, if done right, as to how much the life of the fish is shortened. If its not done quite right, a fair number of fish usually die. Since the early 80's there's been a better technology for "installing the software in the filter" and the hobby is now in the midst of a long, slow transition of letting the old tech die out and the new tech settle in. The new tech is using cheap pure household ammonia to perform a controlled prep of the biofilter and to have a reasonable test that the fragile new filter has reached an operational state.

That's what Fishless Cycling is all about and the members here in the beginners section are pretty fine tuned at helping newcomers perform this type of cycle, and rather enjoy the process. With fishless cycling you are simply supplying the bacteria with the ammonia they need, rather than worrying about and moving lots of fresh water to your tank to lower the damage to the new fish that would be there in a fish-in cycle.

The 3 weeks to 2 months (the overall time is quite unpredictable for either type cycle) that the bacteria take to grow turns out to be a great time to learn all sorts of other startup lore during discusstions with the members in your thread and its a great time to work on a really good stocking list, which is a difficult task in itself sometimes.

Anyway, good luck with your cycle and I hope you'll choose to fishless cycle with ammonia!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Alind]

Hi,
I just Want to suggest you that,the internal heater you had in your tank,the suction holder should not be on the heating area,you should keep both of the holders upside.

Have a nice day!!!

 

[erk628]

Hi,
I just Want to suggest you that,the internal heater you had in your tank,the suction holder should not be on the heating area,you should keep both of the holders upside.

Have a nice day!!!

On some of my heaters I have the holders on the heating element and I've never had any problem!

 

[tom130691]

Hi,
I just Want to suggest you that,the internal heater you had in your tank,the suction holder should not be on the heating area,you should keep both of the holders upside.

Have a nice day!!!

i will move them when i get a minute then lol
need to move a few things about anyways

 

[erk628]

With you plant question no you do not need them it is completly up to you!

 

[tom130691]

With you plant question no you do not need them it is completly up to you!

thanks do you think it would help with the whole cycling tho as it consumes nitrates? and also help oxygenate the tank witch has to be good

 

[erk628]

The nitrates isn't something you need to worry about. Adding plants my slow the cycle down because they also feed on ammonia and nitrates. As long as you filter makes breaks the surface of the water then that's enough h2o. What I mean by this is the water coming out of the filter makes a movement on the water surface like water movement

Nitrates under 100ppm usually is safe for most fish I like to keep mine between 20 to 40. What changes and plants is what will get this done. When you cycle a take nitrates will be the last thing that will show up. First ammonnia then nitrites then nitrates. The first two at any level are harmful to fish

 

[Assaye]

First things first give this a read! http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

I would suggest doing a fishless cycle its easier on you and the fish you can find information on how to do that here. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

ive already lookedat this sort of thing online ect
the tank will have been sat for 2weeks any i will use fish to cycle i have been told rainbow or platies are hardy
put 2-3 in then wait 3-4 before adding anything else

so how optimistic am i being with that list of fish and will i need a live plant or 2?

First things first give this a read! http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

I would suggest doing a fishless cycle its easier on you and the fish you can find information on how to do that here. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

ive already lookedat this sort of thing online ect
the tank will have been sat for 2weeks any i will use fish to cycle i have been told rainbow or platies are hardy
put 2-3 in then wait 3-4 weeks before adding anything else

so how optimistic am i being with that list of fish and will i need a live plant or 2?

cant use this forum

Read it, mate, seriously. It is excellent advice.

If you use fish to cycle your tank (the method you have had recommended), the fish will be exposed to exceptionaly nasty waste chemicals that will damage, if not kill them. If you want to use fish to cycle a tank and not hurt them in the process, you need to do massive water changes every day.

I work in a fish shop mate, and I have to give customers crap advice because if I don't, I'll get sacked. You're in good hands here so please listen to what these people are saying and read the beginners' section of the forum (in that link you were given).

Some of the fish you want to put in will NOT be suitable:

2 or 3 x rainbow or platies - Platies and dwarf rainbows will be fine. Make sure you do get dwarf rainbows though, the others are too big.

1 x pleco - Most plecos (especially the cheap ones) get to over 2 foot long. These are NOT suitable and you'll do them a lot of harm if you try to keep them in a small tank. Post in the catfish section and ask about plecos that only grow to 3-5 inches.

2 x shark - Most sharks will fight each other and all of them get to big. The smallest shark I know of needs a 150 litre tank.

1 x Siamese fighter - Please be aware the siamese fighters are aggressive and many fish will nip their fins and damage them. They are best in a tank on their own.

1 x catfish - There are some small catfish, particularly corys and otos. However, most catfish are fragile and should be added once the tank is about 6 months old. Also, many catfish get very large and many fish shops will try to sell you these fish.

2 x glass cat fish - Too big for your tank

4 x tetra - Tetra should be kept in groups of at least 6 and some are very fragile and should be added to tanks over 6 months old. Also, some tetra get too big. A good starter tetra is a black neon tetra.

1 x algae eater - Most algae eaters (especially ones labelled "Algae Eater" get far too big and get very aggressive. For algae, get shrimps, snails or otos (small shoaling catfish).

2 x guppies - Guppies tend to be fragile, add after 6 months to be safe. Also, don't put them with fin-nipping fish (such as danios)

5 x danios - Groups of 6 or more, but otherwise a nice, hardy fish.

In your tank, the ideal number of fish would be:

6 x small bottom feeder (corys, otos, etc)
6 x small shoaling fish (danios, tetras, harlequin rasboras, etc)
1 x larger bottom feeder (small pleco)
2 x small gouramis OR 3 x platies

As you know, you'll want to wait several weeks between adding the groups to allow the filter bacteria to grow properly. It's best if you buy a water test kit so you can do regular (and essential) health checks on your tank. Sometimes (especially in a new tank) you will need to do these tests every day.

Please don't rush this. Fish DIE when people rush, don't test their water enough and only rely on the shop's advice.

Also - plants.

Plants are GREAT. They use a bit of the ammonia the fish produce so will help get your water stable, they provide oxygen and they are natural, soft places for fish to hide.

Fish need natural environments to be truly happy and healthy. A bare tank with a few plastic plants and ornaments is good for you, but not the fish.

I'd get about 6 hardy plants, see how you do and then get more if you can make them thrive. Good starter plants are amazon sword, java fern, anubias and cabomba.

 

[Truck]

If you do a fish in cycle then it's fine to use plants from the off, but make sure you have plenty! That way they will use some of the ammonia as a nitrogen source, and only a small remainder will need removing with a water change, absolutely stuff the plant with tanks and your cycle should go well, crypts, anubias, echinodorus, hygrophylia, vallis, moss, microsorum etc.

The more plants the better.

If you choose to fishless cycle then leave the plants until it's finished.

 

[tom130691]

Assaye
thanks for the info that was just a rough list i had i have had a quick look at adult sizes but havent looked at it enough
i choose most of those fish as i thourght they were peacefull lol
will look in to the fish you advise seems not ok tbh just think the sharks look cool as do the fighters there seems to be a smallish shark on the site below
i was judging this using the info on here http/www.aquaticstoyourdoor.co.uk/


truckasauras123
ok i didnt want to go ott on plant will get 5 smallish potted ones? will looking to the type u have advised