New Tank (Didn't Cycle) And Fish Has Died :(

[WhatTheMermaidSaid]

Hello all, 
 
We are fairly new to fishkeeping. We bought a kids starter tank (with filter but no heater) for my son a few months ago which came in a kit form from pets at home with Nutrafin cycle and aqua plus. We followed the advice from pets at home re. treating the water etc, added 4 platy's after 3 days and all has been fine. We did have 1 die after a few weeks but the other seem fine and we have even got a few babies which have survived despite warnings they may get eaten. 
 
As we have enjoyed our little fish tank in the kitchen we decided to get a larger 65l tank for the living room for some tropical fish. Again we went to pets at home (we are starting to wonder how much they know though after googling about setting tanks up) purchased a tank which came with filter and heater, a stand, some gravel, ornaments and live plants. Again we asked for advice on setting the tank up and we were sold some tapsafe and something called filter boost. We followed the instructions on the bottle and again waited 3 days (on their advice) before buying 4 tetras and 2 mollies to add to the tank as a start. Almost immediately we noticed the tetras weren't really glowing but they had said that might happen due to the move. 
 
The fish were added yesterday and today we thought the 2 mollies seemed strange, not moving around much. Then the black one was just kind of laying near the bottom (gills still going) I googled and it seemed it was maybe a cycling issue (we weren't told about this cycling business at pets at home so my googling was when I learned about it!) but whilst I was doing some research the fish seemed to suddenly perk up and was swimming around normally near the surface of the water, then it suddenly just died  
 
I read this link http/www.fishforever.co.uk/cycling.html and following that advice removed all the fish immediately and put them in our already established small tank in the kitchen as I figured this was my best hope of saving the remaining 5? This tank does not have a heater so my first question is, will they be ok in there at least until I can get to a shop tomorrow or should i try and set the bigger heater up in the smaller tank? 
 
And secondly, what do we do now? I'm an animal lover so it upsets me if they die so really want to do this properly. I am planning to test the water tomorrow (once I have bought some testing strips) and maybe go from there? I have no idea what any of the readings will mean. Is there anything else I need to buy to help me start this process properly? 
 
I have read about taking some gravel/filter media (what is filter media?) from our existing tank and putting it into the new tank. Would this be a good start and I have also read about regular water changes and adding ammonia? 
 
I would be very grateful for any advice as we don't want any more fatalities Thanks in advance. 

 

[FishMonkey]

Hi WhatTheMermaidSaid I'd have a read of this:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

Also there is a link on here on how to cycle with fish in, that is the way I Cycled my tank.

I also wouldn't get test strips, they are very inaccurate.

Tropical fish need a heater to survive, i'm not sure what you can do in this emergency, but good luck.

Yeah the used filter media would be a good start, but they definitely need to be in their correct temperature water.

 

[GuppyGirl20]

I agree with FishMonkey on the stripes. Get the kit instead because those readings are much more accurate. How big is your little fish tank and what kind of light do you use? I have a 5 gallon tank myself and I use to not have a heater because the florescent lights put off more heat than light and actually keep the tank water warm. Once I got plants I got a light that would help them grow and a heater because plant lights don't give off as much heat. BUT be careful with this! I've been told that if the water heats and drops a certain number of degrees (sorry, I can't remember right off the top of my head what the number is. I want to say 6 degrees but I'm not for certain) often then things like ich and other sicknesses can infect your fish. 

 

[attibones]

Is it at all possible for you to return all the fish? This would be the best way to go since the mollies need larger tanks, as do the tetras. If you have two empty tanks, it will be far easier to cycle than one very full one.

Oh, wait. What size is the smaller one? Is it empty? How long has it been running exactly? It might not be cycled yet. In the meantime, large water change. Do this every other day.

 

[rms]

It doesn't sound like the smaller tank is cycled if treatments were used and then fish added after 3 days. 
 
Starter tanks aimed at children are normally around the 15l size, which if it is that will make it much too small for all the fish. When you read about the cycle you'll learn that ammonia and nitrite will start increasing, which will be toxic. Along with the low temp, which adds to the stress, the outlook is probably not going to be pleasant. Overstocked tank = higher concentration of toxins. The filter in the small tank just won't cope with it and you'll be doing lots and lots of water changes to keep on top of it, whilst trying to cycle the 65l tank at the same time....
 
I hear so often on this forum about Pets at Home. Never been there and never will. If you can find a local, independent fish shop then maybe they will be able to help out as attibones suggests above. Also as above, keep up the water changes for now and try to rehome them till you get your tanks cycled...
 
Finally. Don't beat yourself up. Myself and many others made the same mistake, but at least you are posting on forums and trying to make good

 

[Ninjouzata]

What size is the starter tank?
 
I think it'd be best to return the fish and do a fish-less cycle following the article FishMonkey linked to you. I know you may not like that but it'd really be better for the fish.
Also as has been said the mollies need a bigger tank so you'd want to re-home them or upgrade them anyways. The platys would be better off in this new large tank as well once it's cycled.
 
Filter media is the stuff in your filter. Like I have THIS in mine. You can take some of it (don't take too much) and put it in your new filter and this will speed up the cycling process.
 

to TFF btw, hope you enjoy it here.

 

[WhatTheMermaidSaid]

Thank you everyone for you replies. I went to an aquatic specialist in London today called aquatic design (great Portland street) and have bought a heater for my small tank, as they said my platy's should be in warm water anyway? A test kit and everything else they suggested. They tested water from both tanks for me and the small tank was perfect. The new large tank was very bad. I have taken some gravel from my smaller (22l) tank and placed it in a stocking inside the new tank. They have suggested I go back in a couple of weeks with another water sample for them to test.

 

[attibones]

Did they test with strips? It's always a good idea to test your own water so you can get the specific numbers. The heater was a good call, however, a platy has no business in twenty liters. 
 
Can you return the fish?

 

[WhatTheMermaidSaid]

They tested with a 2 part liquid and I also bought the test kit myself so I can keep retesting. I plan to move all the fish (except the babies) into the new tank once it's cycled. Both mollies have died now so I now have 3 platy, 4 tiny tetra and some babies in my small tank. I will speak to pets at home tomorrow to see if they will take back the tetra but I doubt it. I didn't realise the rank we have is too small for platy, again went on the advice of pets at home of what to put in and they suggested 4-6 platy so we went with the smaller number of 4. I don't think I will be going there again for anything fish related. They seem to know a little about everything and not a lot about any one thing.
Another thing they told me at pets at home is you can have 1cm of fish for each litre of water. Is this incorrect?

 

[Gruntle]

There is great debate about the amount of fish per litre/cm etc. It depends greatly on the fish you have, some are very active and need a spacious tank or they'll stress. I'm no expert so I won't muddy the waters, I'm sure some other more experienced forum members will be able to advise an appropriate stocking level. It would help if you can give dimensions of your tank (length, width, height).

 

[jimboshrimp]

Hi
I did exactly the same as you , I went to pets at home in Morecambe they were very helpful in choosing 64L tank heater light filter all included and stand etc then advised same as yours 3 days then can add fish and plants .
I actually left it over a week to be safe ( yeah right) then took 3 golden barbs 3 danios a rabbit snail and went home happy I was doing the right thing as had been advised by people who know things ( yeah right again ) I also bought 2 lovely live plants and air stones to make sure they had enough oxygen.Oh and liquid testing kit.A week later bought 5 neon tetras all ok tested water it was all ok even took sample to pets at home  to test before adding new fish.
Then the fun started ammonia sky high nitrite sky high found this wonderful site and learned about fishless cycle and not fish in one I did many many water changes to try to get it sorted poor fish kept going all through this then a few weeks ago when ammonia 0 nitrite0 nitrate just above 0 I went and bought 3 little endler guppies and 2 shrimps wasn't going to buy any more so not overworked the tank went home happy
So then a couple of days later one of my danios was spotty (ich)  then next day all 3 were and the endlers had all died at this point.
I couldn't believe it went to pets at home bought white spot treatment and turned temp up as I was advised on here and thought ok now I've medicated my fish added salt too all would be ok .... Oh no my shrimps died poor captain nemo my rabbit snail died then the barbs and all the danios so I did 100% water change took all the gravel out boiled it took all ornaments out scrubbed them in boiling water too put gravel back in didn't change filter so bacteria was still in there (  after learning on here not to change filters as I had been advised at pets at home ) anyway followed instructions on medication kept up the water changes and temp up and salt ...... there are 5 lonely neon tetras left in my tank no signs of ich at all and I have no intentions of adding more fish or plants until I com  back off my holiday in May so I can keep a close eye on things  
Thankfully after advise on here I have all water correct ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate just above 0 and ph 7 ( phew) but if I had chance again I would do fishless cycle and not chance anything happening to my poor fish I am also buying a small tank to quarantine New fish before adding to my tank ( hindsight is a wonderful thing ) 
So I won't be returning to pets at home again for fish advise I will go to local fish store that has been there about 20 years or more . I hope everything turns out ok with your fish  

 

[rms]

Another thing they told me at pets at home is you can have 1cm of fish for each litre of water. Is this incorrect?

 
As well as length height is also relevant to how many fish. As above, it's in debate, but far better to go with someone from here with vast experience than PAH. That place, honestly..... 

 
Try to find an independent fish shop, but in mean time keep up the water changes

 

[Linear]

Expiernece with PaH has been really good, they have strict guidelines and the staff seem pretty up-to-date with their information - always differs store to store though.