New Tank- Deaths

[Tag2008]

Hi,
First post here so please forgive if im in the wrong place..

I have kept fish for years on and off and recently set up 2 of my tanks after them sitting empty for about a year or so..

I set up a small Juwel 60 and a Rio 180

The Juwel 60 has been going for about 2 weeks with no fish and just running with the heaters and undergravel filter and interner that came built in...

We did water checks and the water is a little soft with a PH of around 6.2 - 6.4
Nitrates etc are 0

So I decided to put in 2 mollys as the book I have reccomends to cycle with and Once done I would to the bigger tank..

Went and bought 2 mollys .. male and female and the male was dead the next morning?? Ok thought stress and journey was maybe too much, did a water check and al is fine I thought..

So went and bought 2 more Mollys to keep the survivor company and put them in.. Looked fine and the next morning they were also dead??

So I have 1 molly left again..

I have checked everything I can think of??

The only thing I see is the waters a bit hotter its sitting at 29 ... Ive turned the eharer right down but its a real hot house this and think it may be the room temp and cant cool the room down??

Any suggestins are very welcome...

Cheers
Tag

 

[JenCliBee]

ur fish are dieing because the tank isnt cycled just leaving a tank empty for a couple of weeks wont cycle it it needs a waste source like household ammonia

u say ur waters stats are fine but wot actually are they as in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate with out a dought ur fish are dieig due 2 ammonia piosening


jen

 

[dthoffsett]

Well, unfortunately letting your tank run with just water in it doesn't do anything towards cycling it. By adding fish in you are doing a fish-in cycle. Rather than type out a bunch of information, I'm going to direct you to link on what cycling is and how to do it with fish. Or for a less stressful cycle (for you and the fish) I'll also add a link for fishless cycling, to do that type you'll need to return any fish you currently have.

Almost forgot, welcome to the forum.

Cycling with fish
Fishless cycling

 

[Tag2008]

Well, unfortunately letting your tank run with just water in it doesn't do anything towards cycling it. By adding fish in you are doing a fish-in cycle. Rather than type out a bunch of information, I'm going to direct you to link on what cycling is and how to do it with fish. Or for a less stressful cycle (for you and the fish) I'll also add a link for fishless cycling, to do that type you'll need to return any fish you currently have.

Almost forgot, welcome to the forum.

Cycling with fish
Fishless cycling

Thanks,
Im reading the fishless cycle at the moment and think I may try this with my Big Tank as its sitting with just water at the moment and has been running for a week...

Do you think the small tank with the 2 surviving Mollys will cycle with them now if I leave them to get on with it? Im presuming they were just a bit hardyier than the other 2 that died?

Thanks again for the links I will spend the day reading up again..

Tag

 

[LauraFrog]

Well I've had basically the same problem, mollies dying in a new tank even though the water readouts were all just about perfect (as in ammonia <0.1ppm) and I couldn't put a finger on it either. If the two that are alive are fine, don't buy any more, keep on top of the water changes and monitor water quality carefully. Adding an 'instant cycle' product will help, but they are not the instant remedy that they promise. They add freeze dried or deactivated cultures of nitrosomonas and nitrobacter, which are cycle bacteria. You need an ammonia source (fish or fishless cyling) to get it to work, and it takes days if not weeks for the bacteria to establish.

 

[martyn413]

Hi Tag,

You need to get an api water tester. When cycling with fish you will have to do daily water changes of about 50% to make sure the ammonia is 0.25 or under. and the same for nitrite.

I would rehome the fish and start a fishless cycle. My tank took 7 weeks to cycle. My fish have been in the take for over a week with no deaths.

Martyn

 

[Tag2008]

Thanks Guys,

I called the local fish shops to ask if they would sell me some of their mature filter media and all said NO, they have all offered me a product called "cycle" and say its all they can hlep with..

I may try this with the tank I have the 2 Mollys in and go for the fishless Cycle for my RIO 180

Thanks again for the feedback guys Ive kept fish many times now over the years and this is always the hardest part to get the water right eh.. or maybe its just im an impatitent bugger lol

Im a bit wary to try the fishless cycle but the tutorial I see in here has steps so fingers crossed..

Thanks again..
Cheers Tag

 

[davefish]

Although the fishless cycling suggestions are obviously valid points. I am a bit surprised that the fish are dying just from ammonia so quickly when you are so understocked and the pH is low.

You haven't mentioned that you dechlorinated the water. Make sure you do this.

Also, I'm pretty sure mollies like hard water and high pH (7.5ish) so they are definitely not the best fish for you, especially when doing fish-in cycling as they will be under enough stress anyway.

Keep up with the water changes otherwise you'll lose your survivors too.

Good luck

 

[Corleone]

Skip Cycle, it's pretty much useless. It might help a bit, but don't trust it to finish the job. There's a few almost-decent "bottled bacteria" products, but most of them are at best highly unreliable and at worst snake oil. I've heard things about a new one called Superbac but haven't found it myself to really test. If you can get ahold of Bio-Spira, it's got about a 50/50 chance of being divine intervention or nothing - I've used it three times myself, and it worked perfectly twice, and had no effect the other time. It has to be kept refrigerated, and I suggest taking an ice pack with you if you find someplace that carries it, to make sure it stays cool on the drive home. I understand Bactinettes is about the same thing.

For those two mollies, check the water at least twice a day, and do water changes as big and often as you figure it needs to keep ammonia and nitrite under 0.25 ppm, preferably well under so it doesn't go over between changes. It might take a while, but it'll work.

It's possible to get through a cycle with fish, it's just a lot of work for you and stress for the fish.

 

[dthoffsett]

Thanks Guys,

I called the local fish shops to ask if they would sell me some of their mature filter media and all said NO, they have all offered me a product called "cycle" and say its all they can hlep with..

I may try this with the tank I have the 2 Mollys in and go for the fishless Cycle for my RIO 180

Thanks again for the feedback guys Ive kept fish many times now over the years and this is always the hardest part to get the water right eh.. or maybe its just im an impatitent bugger lol

Im a bit wary to try the fishless cycle but the tutorial I see in here has steps so fingers crossed..

Thanks again..
Cheers Tag

You might as well save your money and not by the "cycle" product they are trying to sell you. The only two bacteria brands that work are Bio-spira in the US and Bacinettes in the UK, and only if they have been kept refridgerated during transport and storage.

Just be sure to test your tank for ammonia and nitrite and do daily water changes as needed.

As for fishless cycling, it's a lot easier than it sounds.

 

[Tag2008]

Thanks for all the comments guys,

Well after a bit of searching Homebase here in scotland has bottled amonia so will go get some if its pure...

Im going to try and stick it out with the 2 survivors, after reading up a little on the new fishless cycle it does seem much nicer on the fish but im going to keep my fingers crossed that the tank with it being so small I will get them through it I hope..

The big 180 tank I will get the amonia going in there and see how we fare..

Im sure I will be posting soon with all my readings and testkits results and panicing so thank you all once again ...

Tag

 

[Corleone]

The tank being small will actually be a bit harder on the fish - the water chemistry will be a bit less stable and ammonia levels will rise faster. However, it'll be less work for you, so you shouldn't have much trouble doing extra water changesn to compensate.

 

[vinylman]

Welcome Tag,

So your LFS won't give you some filter media, but they will sell you some Cycle?. What a surprise. Unfortunately, fish that do survive a cycle will still have permanently damaged gills, burned by the ammonia. You'll need to do large regular water changes to make things a little easier for them, but the damage can't be undone.

 

[Tag2008]

Welcome Tag,

So your LFS won't give you some filter media, but they will sell you some Cycle?. What a surprise. Unfortunately, fish that do survive a cycle will still have permanently damaged gills, burned by the ammonia. You'll need to do large regular water changes to make things a little easier for them, but the damage can't be undone.

Thanks Guys,

Well Got up today and only have 1 black molly...

The other died through the night like the other 3 with no signs of anything wrong just died!!

Of all the times Ive set up my tanks in the past Ive never had such quick deaths b4, no signs of illness, stress or anything?

I dunno if I can cycle my small tank with the 1 surving Molly can I? Is 1 fish enough?

Thanks again
Tag

 

[Tag2008]

Heres a question...

As I mentioned b4 Ive kept fish on and off all my life in spells of a few years at a time and had some great successes with severums and most cichlids in the past.. So I dont think Im a complete newbiew, But after a spell of not keeping fish it all seems daunting again when you set up...

But In my last post I mentioned not having deaths this was so fast with no signs before so I am puzzled?

To Recap on my problem..

I set up a Juwel 60 and had 4 mollys in there after a week of running with nowt in except declorinator...

All guides on ' fish in cycling ' say use a hardy fish and reccomend mollys, guppys and the like..

So at most I had 4 Mollys in a tank that was a week old....

What killed them? I had no Nitrate, Nitrite or Amonia? They were getting a 10 litre water change every day...

With having so few fish in the tank and the readings being zero I dunno what my deaths are caused by, I always thought uncycled tanks were polluted by amonia or nitrates etc and this is what kills new tanks fish?

Well Im down to 1 molly in my small Juwel 60.. am I wasting my time trying to cycle it with the 1 Molly?, Im a little aprehansive on going out and buying more for them to keel over within 24 hrs of putting them in and not know whats killing them?


Cheers Tag....