New Tank / Cycling / Stocking :)

[nunchucks]

just a quick question on cycling. i'm currently cycling a 70 litre tank with 8 platies. should i be doing water changes? or do i let the ammonia build up? i was told not to do any water changes but it's a bit confusing, if the ammonia builds up too much won't it kill my poor platies?

i'm very confused, any help appreciated.

as far as stocking goes, how does..

6 tigers barb
2 upside down catfish
1 bristlenose

... sound? the tank has a wet/dry filter and it filters 10x the tanks capacity per hour.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Yes you should do water changes if you are cycling with fish, the first thing you should do is buy the most accurate water quality test kit you can find which tests for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph. Test the tank for these stats every day, if you see any ammonia or nitrites you should do a small 20% water change, because if they build up too much they may kill the fish.

Cycling with fish takes the longest to do, since you cannot let ammonia and nitrites build up too much as otherwise they may kill the fish, this article may be of some help to you;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099


One of the quickest ways to cycle a tank is to do a fishless cycle, where you have no fish in the tank and just add pure ammonia to the tank- because there are no fish to worry about, you can add a lot of ammonia to the tank and thus cycle it a lot quicker- with a fishless cycle, when it is complete, you can also stock the tank a lot more and a lot quicker too than what you can with a tank that has been cycled with fish.

70 litres = 18.49 US gallons, unfortunately the tank isn't big enough for tiger barbs, but depending on the tanks exact measurements, it should be fine for a bristlenose pleco and upside down catfish (although they would be better in a group of 3-4 individuals), although it would be best not to add the fish to the tank until it is a lot more established as bottom dwelling fish are more sensitive to ammonia which is more concentrated at the bottom of the tank .

 

[nunchucks]

just a quick question on cycling. i'm currently cycling a 70 litre tank with 8 platies. should i be doing water changes? or do i let the ammonia build up? i was told not to do any water changes but it's a bit confusing, if the ammonia builds up too much won't it kill my poor platies?

i'm very confused, any help appreciated.

as far as stocking goes, how does..

6 tigers barb
2 upside down catfish
1 bristlenose

... sound? the tank has a wet/dry filter and it filters 10x the tanks capacity per hour.

thankyou for that. i've been having the water tested weekly for KH, ammonia, nitrAtes and nitrItes at my local fish store where i purchased the tank, the ammonia is around .50 the fish store lady looked horrified when i told her i'd been doing water changes, soon as a fish dies im going to start doing water changes again. i trust their word but i can't exactly cycle a tank with no fish.

as for the tiger barbs, i might look for an alternative. any suggestions for nice community fish that would go with a bristlenose? (although i am kind of tempted to go for a species only tank). all suggestions welcome.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

thankyou for that. i've been having the water tested weekly for KH, ammonia, nitrAtes and nitrItes at my local fish store where i purchased the tank, the ammonia is around .50 the fish store lady looked horrified when i told her i'd been doing water changes, soon as a fish dies im going to start doing water changes again. i trust their word but i can't exactly cycle a tank with no fish.

as for the tiger barbs, i might look for an alternative. any suggestions for nice community fish that would go with a bristlenose? (although i am kind of tempted to go for a species only tank). all suggestions welcome.

Ah petshop staff generally tend to not have a clue what they are talking about, since most petshops don't give their staff any decent training when it comes to fish, they tend to spread more myths than facts about the fishkeeping hobby .

If the ammonia is 0.50, you should do a 20% water change with dechlorinator and then leave the tank for a few hours or more and then test the water later on to see what the ammonia and nitrites levels etc are like.



Hm...If you are looking for active shoaling fish to replace the tiger barbs, cherry barbs are a lot better for community tanks because they are a lot more peaceful than tiger barbs (which can be semi-agressive towards other fish) and grow smaller than tiger barbs but are still colourful, hardy, peaceful active little fish, cherry barbs;

http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/cherbarb.htm

.


Penguin tetras are a good option too;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=63290

As are glolight tetras;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=35123

and Head And Tail Light Tetras;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113667

and Colombian Tetras;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=138901

and bloodfin tetras;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=67029

and black neon tetras;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=43531



Leopard danios and zebra danios are the same type of fish, just two different pattern variations, and make good hardy, peaceful shoaling fish;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=42797


Etc...



There are a lot of options when it comes to small peaceful shoaling fish for 70litre tanks

 

[littlest]

i trust their word but i can't exactly cycle a tank with no fish.

yes you can cycle a tank without fish. It's called a fishless cycle. You simply add ammonia from a bottle or if you can't get hold of ammonia, use fish food or prawns.

Waiting for your fish to die before you do anything is cruel. You need to do water changes to keep those fish alive and healthy. A better opiton however would be to return the fish you have, do a fishless cycle, then buy more fish when that is complete.

Testing weekly is not enough when your tank is still cycling with fish. You need to get your own liquid tests and test everyday, doing water changes when necessary. If you decide to return the fish and do a fishless cycle, then you will still need your own test kits to monitor its progress.

 

[nunchucks]

i trust their word but i can't exactly cycle a tank with no fish.

yes you can cycle a tank without fish. It's called a fishless cycle. You simply add ammonia from a bottle or if you can't get hold of ammonia, use fish food or prawns.

Waiting for your fish to die before you do anything is cruel. You need to do water changes to keep those fish alive and healthy. A better opiton however would be to return the fish you have, do a fishless cycle, then buy more fish when that is complete.

Testing weekly is not enough when your tank is still cycling with fish. You need to get your own liquid tests and test everyday, doing water changes when necessary. If you decide to return the fish and do a fishless cycle, then you will still need your own test kits to monitor its progress.

i may have misworded my second post. i'm definitely not going to wait till one dies to start the water changes, but when i can see the ammonia is having an effect i'll know that i'll have to do it. i've recieved much conflicting advice. the lady at the fish store would flip if i told her i'd still been doing water changes. she knows her stuff and was willing to take the time to explain everything to me so i do trust the store.

i'm just confused.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

i may have misworded my second post. i'm definitely not going to wait till one dies to start the water changes, but when i can see the ammonia is having an effect i'll know that i'll have to do it. i've recieved much conflicting advice. the lady at the fish store would flip if i told her i'd still been doing water changes. she knows her stuff and was willing to take the time to explain everything to me so i do trust the store.

i'm just confused.

Its best to a water change before the ammonia is causing the platys to show symptoms, since the damage it does to them starts before that- nitrites can stunt the growth of fish, while the stress of the water quality problems can make the fishes imune systems less efficient and the fish may get sick with diseases or parasites, or may make any female platys you have which are pregnant (which they often are) abort their fry etc. The ammonia can also damage the gills of the fish.

 

[pauly]

Ah petshop staff generally tend to not have a clue what they are talking about

That's a bit of a generalisation.

There are two ways to do a cycle. Fishless and with-fish. With-fish cycling is the traditional method that the aquatics stores tend to use. However some people argue that this is cruel to the fish and opt for fishless cycling.

Both options have their advantages and disadvantages so its best for you to choose the option that suits your needs and way of thinking.

You should get your own liquid test kit. They're about £18 but will last for ages and save you weekly trips to your LFS.

I wouldn't wait for a fish to die because the chances are if one dies, the whole lot could. Test your water every day to keep a track on your ammonia and don't let it build up too high (anything above 0.5ppm).

Paul.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Ah petshop staff generally tend to not have a clue what they are talking about

That's a bit of a generalisation.
Paul.

I know its a generalisation, but from what i have seen of petshop staff advice, i would definately advise its a lot safer to do your own research than to rely on petshop advice.
Anyone can work in a petshop with fish and they don't even need to have any experience working with them on knowledge either to qualify for the job. Essentially when it comes down to it, petshops are run like any other buisness, a lot of petshops with just start rubbing their hands together when they see a fishkeeping newb who wants to know what they need to keep fish etc, the petsho will be like "oh and you need this protein skimmer, yeah, and a bubble pump, and this expensive RO water filtration unit, the latest jewel tank, this fish and that fish etc"- not that different really from when woman who has no clue about cars walks into a garage and wants her car repairing, a lot of the time the person will get over-charged etc.
A petshop is no more obliged to tell you how to be a good fishkeeper than what a garage is to tell you how to be a good driver.


Of course there are some really good LFS/local fish stores, but even so, there is so much to learn about every single type of fish, you can't expect the staff to know everything even if they do want to sincerely/honestly help, they themselves may have also been given incorrect/semi-incorrect information too as well.

For example, it was good of the lady that nunchucks saw in the petshop to tell nunchucks about cycling (a lot of petshop staff don't bother), but she was wrong to tell nunchucks not to do any water changes during the cycle with fish. I'm sure she was just tryng to honestly help (and she may know a fair amount on fishkeeping), but that doesn't mean that all of her advice/info is good.