New Tank Cycling - Advice Please :)

[fizzlesticks]

Hi there,

I'm fairly new to fish keeping. I haveh one established 30L tank abnd a new 34L tank to replace a leaking 20L (cycled) that I'd just put fish in (sigh): one betta and three glowlight tetras. Currently the tetras are sharing the established tank, and my betta (Delirium) is in an old 10L tank with a heater but no filter. He can't go in the 30L because of the guppies.

The new 34L tank is seeded with filter media and gravel from two established tanks, and has a couple of plants in it. I have a testing kit and I've been trying to do a fishless cycle with fishfood, but it seems to be very slow going (only 0.25 ammonia on the last reading, and that was after nearly a week--see below for confusing updates).

I don't really like Delirium being stuck in this dull 10L (2.5 gallon) tank with only an ornament. He's doing fine and eating well, but I'd like to get him into the new tank asap. With the plants and seed media, will it be safe to move him into the tank sooner or should I wait until the big tank is completely cycled.

I'm changing water frequently in his little tank, but I think he's probably exposed to more ammonia in such a small space than in a big (cycling) tank with plants. What do you think?

I've attached a dodgy photo of Delirium on his first day (in the old 20L).

 

[fizzlesticks]

To add some more information (because I'd like to know if I'm doing anything wrong!):

I'm feeding Delirium betta pellets daily, with brine shimp (freeze dried) every couple of days, flakes now and then, and frozen blood worms as treats.

In the 30L established tank I have 3 male guppies, 3 harlequin rasboras, 2 neon tetras and 3 glowlight tetras. My long-term plan is to move the tetras in with Delirium (in the 34L)--would it be safe to then add a few more neons (totalling 5) and a few cories, or is that too much?

The 30L tank plan is to get some friends for the rasboras (maybe 2 or 3 more--now that I know they like company) and perhaps add a honey gourami.

I had panda cories and loved them to bits but they died unexpectedly. I do weekly gravel cleans and 20-30% water changes in that tank. Parameters are all perfect at the last reading.

 

[DevotedToDiscus]

What filtration system do you have running, with which kind of medium? Also do you know the rough parameters of your tap water(pH, kH)? In general Betta's are amazingly tough chaps, and as long as he is nice and warm he won't complain about much

 

[fizzlesticks]

What filtration system do you have running, with which kind of medium? Also do you know the rough parameters of your tap water(pH, kH)? In general Betta's are amazingly tough chaps, and as long as he is nice and warm he won't complain about much

The pH in the 34L is around 6.4--surprisingly low, considering our tap water is usually above 7. I had used some tank water (rainwater), which might have lowered the pH. That's usually how I find the pH halfway mark. I don't know the kH.

The filtration system is built into the Aqua One AR380. My seed media is sponge and SeaChem Matrix, and the new stuff in there is sponge and ceramic noodles. There was activated carbon with the kit, but there isn't space for it with all the seeding stuff, and I know it only lasts a little while anyway. It's the kind of filter that flows down gently and evenly from above, so no harsh currents.

I bought an Aqua Nova heater, but I'm not 100% sure that it's working. The thermometer says the tanks sitting at about 24 degrees celcius, which is odd, considering the heater is 75W and set to 26.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[Miles_hot]

Can I just clarify where I think you are?
You had a cycled filter which was attached to the 20L tank which was supporting 1 beta and 3 GL Tetra + another 30L tank (cycled) + the 10L which has no filter
You now have:
New 34L tank with filter seeded from the XXL tank - fishless cycling
The 30L tank with established (but depleted by a third) media with the GL Tetra
The 10L with the Beta

If I've got it right:
1) Where is the cycled filter which was on the broken tank? That filter was able to cope with a full 5ppm 20L tank - it would have been able to safely cover all the fish you had in that tank.
2) Is there a reason the Beta isn't in the 30L tank (I don't know enough to judge if this is a bad idea!). Assuming there isn't a behavioural reason why he's not in there I would put him in that tank even if it means doing a lot more testing of that established tank and maybe even a slight element if fish in cycling as he's doesn't seem to be in a great place right now.

Some observations:
a) pH of 6.3 is pretty low - I think the threshold is 6 - I'd get some bicarb in there to get the pH up to 8 to help the cycle. You'll get rid of it before you put the fish in anyway.
b) putting a fish into a fishless cycle is an absolute no no - you're aiming to have an ammonia level of up to 4-5ppm in that tank. With the water changes in the 10L you shouldn't be allowing the ammonia to get above 0.25 (I assume you're doing tests and the water changes are driven by the testing?) so he's far better off in either the 10L or 30L.

Hope this helps

Miles

 

[DevotedToDiscus]

Everything you have sounds fine and your pH is fine for your fish as long as it is stable, and if it were me I would move the fish to your new tank. Obviously it takes a while for the bacteria to build up within the filter(sometimes up to a month), but this process will actually speed up quite dramatically if the fish are in the tank.

I wouldn't take much notice of the temperature dial on the heater, they are a very rough guide and not to be trusted. Trust your thermometer, and if you are not sure if the heater is running just put your hand near the coil end when the thermostat light is on and you will feel the warmth coming off it. As your Tetras are South American and your Betta is a South East Asian they both actually enjoy the same water, and will be happiest if you can get your tank temp around 26-28C.

Hope this helps, and best of luck.

 

[fizzlesticks]

Can I just clarify where I think you are?
You had a cycled filter which was attached to the 20L tank which was supporting 1 beta and 3 GL Tetra + another 30L tank (cycled) + the 10L which has no filter
You now have:
New 34L tank with filter seeded from the XXL tank - fishless cycling
The 30L tank with established (but depleted by a third) media with the GL Tetra
The 10L with the Beta

Correct.

If I've got it right:
1) Where is the cycled filter which was on the broken tank? That filter was able to cope with a full 5ppm 20L tank - it would have been able to safely cover all the fish you had in that tank.

The filter mechanism was attached to that tank and can't be removed. I've moved all that filter media into the new one. Technically that means there should be nitrates present, but for some reason there aren't. I'm a bit confused.

2) Is there a reason the Beta isn't in the 30L tank (I don't know enough to judge if this is a bad idea!). Assuming there isn't a behavioural reason why he's not in there I would put him in that tank even if it means doing a lot more testing of that established tank and maybe even a slight element if fish in cycling as he's doesn't seem to be in a great place right now.

There are guppies in that tank, and they'd attack the betta.

Some observations:
a) pH of 6.3 is pretty low - I think the threshold is 6 - I'd get some bicarb in there to get the pH up to 8 to help the cycle. You'll get rid of it before you put the fish in anyway.

I'll test the water again today and see where we're at.

b) putting a fish into a fishless cycle is an absolute no no - you're aiming to have an ammonia level of up to 4-5ppm in that tank. With the water changes in the 10L you shouldn't be allowing the ammonia to get above 0.25 (I assume you're doing tests and the water changes are driven by the testing?) so he's far better off in either the 10L or 30L.

I'm testing, yes, and doing frequent water changes. It was at 0.25 yesterday, so I did a 20% change. Will check again later today.

Many thanks!

Everything you have sounds fine and your pH is fine for your fish as long as it is stable, and if it were me I would move the fish to your new tank. Obviously it takes a while for the bacteria to build up within the filter(sometimes up to a month), but this process will actually speed up quite dramatically if the fish are in the tank.

Yes, but I don't want to expose Delirium to so much ammonia!

I wouldn't take much notice of the temperature dial on the heater, they are a very rough guide and not to be trusted. Trust your thermometer, and if you are not sure if the heater is running just put your hand near the coil end when the thermostat light is on and you will feel the warmth coming off it. As your Tetras are South American and your Betta is a South East Asian they both actually enjoy the same water, and will be happiest if you can get your tank temp around 26-28C.

Hope this helps, and best of luck.

Cheers. Thanks for your reply.

 

[fizzlesticks]

Today's readings in the cycling tank:

pH: 7.6 or above (seems more like the usual from our tap water--don't know what happened yesterday)
Ammonia: 0 to 0.25--somewhere in between
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5.0 ppm

Is the silly thing cycled (because of the seeding media) and I just haven't realised?

 

[Miles_hot]

Fiz - the cycled test is that you can raise the ammonia to 4-5ppm in the evening and have doube zeros by the morning. Ideally keep this up for 5 days however as you're using seeded media you may not need to do this qualification activity.

 

[fizzlesticks]

Fiz - the cycled test is that you can raise the ammonia to 4-5ppm in the evening and have doube zeros by the morning. Ideally keep this up for 5 days however as you're using seeded media you may not need to do this qualification activity.

Would that work with food? (I do the fishless cycle with fish food rather than ammonia.)

 

[Miles_hot]

That's the thing about the use of food / dead shrip etc - it's a lot harder to be precise about it - you can't quantify if there is 1ppm or 5 ppm being put into the water. Can you get hold of some ammonia just to check?

 

[fizzlesticks]

That's the thing about the use of food / dead shrip etc - it's a lot harder to be precise about it - you can't quantify if there is 1ppm or 5 ppm being put into the water. Can you get hold of some ammonia just to check?

Not easily, unfortunately. But I should take the recent parameters a good sign? The fact that there's nitrate means cycling must be near its end, right?

 

[Overload]

That's the thing about the use of food / dead shrip etc - it's a lot harder to be precise about it - you can't quantify if there is 1ppm or 5 ppm being put into the water. Can you get hold of some ammonia just to check?

Not easily, unfortunately. But I should take the recent parameters a good sign? The fact that there's nitrate means cycling must be near its end, right?

out
Well it means you have some N-bacs, or you just have it in your tap water (my tap water has about 40ppm of nitrate) but you need to know what you are putting in for the number to have any real meaning

 

[fizzlesticks]

Well it means you have some N-bacs, or you just have it in your tap water (my tap water has about 40ppm of nitrate) but you need to know what you are putting in for the number to have any real meaning

Ah, I see.

I'm very confused as to whether it is indeed cycled, cycling or nothing then.

 

[Overload]

Well it means you have some N-bacs, or you just have it in your tap water (my tap water has about 40ppm of nitrate) but you need to know what you are putting in for the number to have any real meaning

Ah, I see.

I'm very confused as to whether it is indeed cycled, cycling or nothing then.

I would not be sure either unless I knew how much ammonia was going into the tank.

Where do you live? If you are in the UK it should be pretty easy to get hold of some